darTZeel NHB-108 Model 2 - The Best Stereo Amplifier In The World Just Got Way Better!

[fbhifi]

I’ve been listening to a 108 Model 2 for months now as my 468s are being built. I previously had an original 108 which I upgraded with SCNP, which clearly improved the amplifier. Next I got a pair of 458s, which clearly improved on the 108 w/SCNP. The Model 2 I’m listening to now definitely has that 468 DNA and is, arguably, sonically superior to the 458s. This surprised me at first, but after hundreds of hours there‘s no doubt the 108 Model 2 is the winner. At a price in excess of $50k could it be considered a bargain, perhaps...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well this landed yesterday. Wrapping my ears and brain around it still, but out of the box, it's fantastic. Versus Model 1 with SCNP, the bass is immediately noticeable as is the overall ease and openness. Timbral accuracy seems improved - things just sound more realistic and present; less reproduced. A triangle strike on Eric Clapton Unplugged spooked me. And without a doubt, the Model 2 definitely still has the instantly recognizable darTZeel DNA. Looking forward giving it a good workout in the coming week. But so far, so good!

View attachment 76604

congrats Brian, somehow i missed this before.

very happy for you and must wholeheartedly agree about the model two.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Well this landed yesterday. Wrapping my ears and brain around it still, but out of the box, it's fantastic. Versus Model 1 with SCNP, the bass is immediately noticeable as is the overall ease and openness. Timbral accuracy seems improved - things just sound more realistic and present; less reproduced. A triangle strike on Eric Clapton Unplugged spooked me. And without a doubt, the Model 2 definitely still has the instantly recognizable darTZeel DNA. Looking forward giving it a good workout in the coming week. But so far, so good!

View attachment 76604

Congratulations, Brian!

 

[bazelio]

Thank you Mike and Ron! What can I say other than the Model 2 is a winner. I don't even know if mine is fully "broken in" yet. But, in addition to the early observations, what I've noticed more recently is how much "bigger" the sound is coming from Model2. Sounds just permeate more, sustain more, thus filling the environment more. This is more real or "natural", and while I never considered Model 1 to be a "hi fi" sound, comparatively it did give a noticeably more point source effect. It's really remarkable to get this big permeating sound from a solid state device IMO, and then add in the Model 2's solidity and gravitas. Wow. Color me impressed and happy!

 

[fooolish1]

I own the Model NHB-108 One with the NTSC upgrade. I use it with the Fleetwood Deville SQ's and a pair of Magico A-Subs. My preamplifier is the all battery powered Veloce. Though Veloce the company is no longer with us, it continues to plug along. What a glorious combination. The 108 has the glorious, liquid, textured mid-range of the best single ended designs with the superb imaging and definition of great solid state amps. In some respects the Veloce shares similar design aspects of the Dart preamp. Battery power and low input impedance. To me it is the finest stereo amp I've ever owned and I've owned quite a few over the past 20 years. Ironically the owner of Veloce is the designer of the Fleetwood Devilles. Birds of a feather produce great sound?

 

[Zeotrope]

I’ve been listening to a 108 Model 2 for months now as my 468s are being built. I previously had an original 108 which I upgraded with SCNP, which clearly improved the amplifier. Next I got a pair of 458s, which clearly improved on the 108 w/SCNP. The Model 2 I’m listening to now definitely has that 468 DNA and is, arguably, sonically superior to the 458s. This surprised me at first, but after hundreds of hours there‘s no doubt the 108 Model 2 is the winner. At a price in excess of $50k could it be considered a bargain, perhaps...

I think that if you don’t need the extra power of the 468, the 108 will sound better. Ie, with higher efficiency speakers, the 108 will sound better.

 

[Zeotrope]

Anyone using Taiko Daiza platforms with Dartzeel components? What feet are you using?
I know Emile prefers metal spikes, but not sure which to buy.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Anyone using Taiko Daiza platforms with Dartzeel components? What feet are you using?
I know Emile prefers metal spikes, but not sure which to buy.

currently i use Daiza's under my dart 468 amps as part of the Tana active systems. but i have used the Daiza platforms under the 468's without the Tana systems using the Daiza footers.

my 2 cents is that the rubber footers on the 18NS or 108 amps are to be avoided. and using the Daiza is one good way to go. the Daiza is very linear and compliments the dart presentation to my ears.

i do have 22 Daiza's in my system and think very highly of them. they do positive things, and avoid non musical colorations. but they are subtle in their effect.

 

[Zeotrope]

currently i use Daiza's under my dart 468 amps as part of the Tana active systems. but i have used the Daiza platforms under the 468's without the Tana systems using the Daiza footers.

my 2 cents is that the rubber footers on the 18NS or 108 amps are to be avoided. and using the Daiza is one good way to go. the Daiza is very linear and compliments the dart presentation to my ears.

i do have 22 Daiza's in my system and think very highly of them. they do positive things, and avoid non musical colorations. but they are subtle in their effect.

Thanks Mike! Now which Daiza footers exactly do you place between the Dartzeel and the Daiza? The round copper footers that the Daiza comes with go between the Daiza and the floor/shelf. Are you using an extra set?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks Mike! Now which Daiza footers exactly do you place between the Dartzeel and the Daiza? The round copper footers that the Daiza comes with go between the Daiza and the floor/shelf. Are you using an extra set?

for the 468's i place the amps directly on the Daiza.

for my 18NS i do use the small Daiza foam filled footers open end down between the chassis bottom and the Daiza top surface.

in both cases there is an active Herzan TS unit below the Daiza.

but in other locations such as under my Wadax Dac and Wadax dac power supply i do use the copper round interface footers under the Daiza. and in a few spots i use double Daiza's.

 

[Zeotrope]

for the 468's i place the amps directly on the Daiza.

for my 18NS i do use the small Daiza foam filled footers open end down between the chassis bottom and the Daiza top surface.

in both cases there is an active Herzan TS unit below the Daiza.

but in other locations such as under my Wadax Dac and Wadax dac power supply i do use the copper round interface footers under the Daiza. and in a few spots i use double Daiza's.

I think the Daiza footers have changed since you got yours. Now they ship with 3 feet that must sit between the Daiza and the floor.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think the Daiza footers have changed since you got yours. Now they ship with 3 feet that must sit between the Daiza and the floor.

they have not changed.

i have dozens of those. but for instance if the Daiza is on a thick carpet i use tall cones. or the Daiza sits on my active units.

 

[Zeotrope]

So under the DarTZeel pre you use these Daiza footers?
And you put your Daiza flat (no footers) on the Heran TS?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

So under the DarTZeel pre you use these Daiza footers?
And you put your Daiza flat (no footers) on the Heran TS?

maybe it would help to know that the Daiza was a by-product of research by Taiko in developing the Tana system. Ed Hsu heard my Herzan TS platforms in 2015 in my room and was excited, communicated with Emile, and they spent a couple years experimenting at optimizing the active devices. along the way they tried different materials to augment the low frequency resonance attenuation of the active with passive materials......then optimizing the best passive material (panzerholtz) with the spiral cut-outs.

so for the Tana 'system' the Daiza sits on top of a thin rubber membrane, which sits on a 10mm layer attached to the Herzan active shelf.

when they were working on the Daiza design they sent me a few different versions of it to try.

what you see today is a stand alone product, but it did not start out that way. and now the Tana system is no longer offered.

 

[Zeotrope]

maybe it would help to know that the Daiza was a by-product of research by Taiko in developing the Tana system. Ed Hsu heard my Herzan TS platforms in 2015 in my room and was excited, communicated with Emile, and they spent a couple years experimenting at optimizing the active devices. along the way they tried different materials to augment the low frequency resonance attenuation of the active with passive materials......then optimizing the best passive material (panzerholtz) with the spiral cut-outs.

so for the Tana 'system' the Daiza sits on top of a thin rubber membrane, which sits on a 10mm layer attached to the Herzan active shelf.

when they were working on the Daiza design they sent me a few different versions of it to try.

what you see today is a stand alone product, but it did not start out that way. and now the Tana system is no longer offered.

Thanks, I started reading your thread about active vibration stands from 2019… lots to digest!
I don’t think Taiko offers the Tana anymore. Is Stacor the next best?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks, I started reading your thread about active vibration stands from 2019… lots to digest!
I don’t think Taiko offers the Tana anymore. Is Stacor the next best?

from what i have read, this one might be the best bang for the buck for fighting resonance....i have read about.

not yet used it myself, but TLi is a very credible person.

Seismion - new active isolation platform from Germany

At the end of last year, I was contacted by the founder of a new German manufacturer of isolators called Seismion. The founders are Dr Marcus Neubauer, he has a PhD in mechanical engineering, and Sebastian Mojrzisch, electrical engineer and former manager at Volkswagen (VW) in the...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Zeotrope]

Thanks! And you have tried the Stracor Advanced, correct? I think I read a post where you mentioned it was in your system.

 

[Zeotrope]

Updated Shunyata ALTAIRA ground terminal for the 18NS preamp power supply - a perfect fit. The ring terminal is from Shunyata - they will supply them if you ask.

 

[all2ofme]

Updated Shunyata ALTAIRA ground terminal for the 18NS preamp power supply - a perfect fit. The ring terminal is from Shunyata - they will supply them if you ask

This is really helpful

Happy with the Altaira on the 18NS?

Have you tied your Altaira to the Model Two as well? I’m not clear on whether it’s a sensible match there. Separate, floating channels and all that…

 

[Zeotrope]

This is really helpful

Happy with the Altaira on the 18NS?

Have you tied your Altaira to the Model Two as well? I’m not clear on whether it’s a sensible match there. Separate, floating channels and all that…

Yes, to both.

On the 108 Mark II amp I used the XLR connectors to connect the amp to the Altaira. There is continuity to the AC ground (but this could be because of how my ground jumpers are set). I am using a single Altaira Signal Hub, not one per channel. To be honest, I never did a A-B test with the ground cables connected and disconnected. I made a couple of changes at the same time and was happy with the sound; but I do plan to disconnect the ground cables to hear how it sounds without the ground cables.