DCS Vivaldi

[jfrech]

Finally received the Vivaldi Clock yesterday. Surprised at just how big an improvement it makes. I suspect it may get somewhat better as the Transparent XL cables break in. In any case, the system sounds more holographic with greater depth and specificity of the soundstage. Seems the instruments seem far more realistic and cohesive and oddly I can raise the volume without feeling blown back in my chair. The lower bass seems more textured, and musical elements that I’d previously let escape my attention are now clearly expressed. And this is especially true at the very end of passages. All in all, a great addition to my sound system.

Steve congrats ! Great description of what I hear to with the clock. I do think it will get a bit better in a week or so with the cables settling in. I've never tried a GPS receiver or these other clock references, I just enjoy the Vivaldi as it is...I guess one day I'll get it a listen...

 

[Elberoth]

Steve congrats ! Great description of what I hear to with the clock. I do think it will get a bit better in a week or so with the cables settling in. I've never tried a GPS receiver or these other clock references, I just enjoy the Vivaldi as it is...I guess one day I'll get it a listen...

Try to borrow the Mutec Ref-10 to try if you can.

 

[stevebythebay]

As my only source for the dCS system is a network based Roon Nucleus, it would seem that a master clock is not worth any investment. If the Nucleus and my network switch supported one, that might make it worthwhile. Let me know if I am misunderstanding things.

 

[microstrip]

Using GPSDO for audio makes exactly ZERO sense. None, nada.

Their internal XO (or Rubidium oscillator) is continously 'pulled' to track the GPS signal by a tracking loop. The disciplining mechanism works in a similar way to a phase-locked loop (PLL) and is a source of jitter, decreasing GPSDO 's short term stability.

GPSDOs are built for long term accuracy, not short term stability, and there is a range of applications where they work great. Unfortunately, D/A conversion in audio applications, is not one of them.

You need an XO with lowest possible short term stability, i.e. phase noise figures. This is why fixed frequency XO work best and have lowest phase noise figures.

Here you can compare the phase noise plots for several different oscillator modules:

Rubidium oscllator module SRS PRS-10 used in Esoteric Rubidium clocks (green trace)
Rubidium oscllator module FE-5680A used in Jay's Audio CD transport (blue trace)
OCXO used in Mutec Ref-10 clock (yellow trace)

As you can see, the Mutec's OCXO clock is far superior to any rubidium oscilators. Even the excellent (and expensive at $1400 OEM cost) SRS module only gets -105dBc/Hz @ 1Hz. Mutec is rated -116dBc/Hz and CyberShaft OP20 is -120dBc/Hz.

The Antelope 10M clock mentioned here, which is based on the Spectratime LCR-900 module, is worse than ALL oscillators plotted above - its plot would be ~20dB above the blue plot of FE-5680A! It is literally laughably bad.

Great data, many thanks. Can you point us a link to the original page?
Now I have to get a Mutec clock!

 

[Tand]

Hi

I use a Mutec Ref10 with my Vivaldi dac and Vivaldi clock. I actually thought the Ref10 upgrade (with Habst cables) was bigger than ading just the Vivaldi clock.

Tommy

 

[stevebythebay]

Using GPSDO for audio makes exactly ZERO sense. None, nada.

Their internal XO (or Rubidium oscillator) is continously 'pulled' to track the GPS signal by a tracking loop. The disciplining mechanism works in a similar way to a phase-locked loop (PLL) and is a source of jitter, decreasing GPSDO 's short term stability.

GPSDOs are built for long term accuracy, not short term stability, and there is a range of applications where they work great. Unfortunately, D/A conversion in audio applications, is not one of them.

You need an XO with lowest possible short term stability, i.e. phase noise figures. This is why fixed frequency XO work best and have lowest phase noise figures.

Here you can compare the phase noise plots for several different oscillator modules:

Rubidium oscllator module SRS PRS-10 used in Esoteric Rubidium clocks (green trace)
Rubidium oscllator module FE-5680A used in Jay's Audio CD transport (blue trace)
OCXO used in Mutec Ref-10 clock (yellow trace)

As you can see, the Mutec's OCXO clock is far superior to any rubidium oscilators. Even the excellent (and expensive at $1400 OEM cost) SRS module only gets -105dBc/Hz @ 1Hz. Mutec is rated -116dBc/Hz and CyberShaft OP20 is -120dBc/Hz.

The Antelope 10M clock mentioned here, which is based on the Spectratime LCR-900 module, is worse than ALL oscillators plotted above - its plot would be ~20dB above the blue plot of FE-5680A! It is literally laughably bad.

Thanks, but I’m a bit unclear on the justification for using an external clock in my specific situation. With the dCS providing separate 44kbps and 48kbps clocking to both the dCS Upsampler and DAC, how does the use of this Mutec reference enhance performance?

 

[CKKeung]

Thanks, but I’m a bit unclear on the justification for using an external clock in my specific situation. With the dCS providing separate 44kbps and 48kbps clocking to both the dCS Upsampler and DAC, how does the use of this Mutec reference enhance performance?

The answer is that if the Vivaldi Clock is given a good 10M clock signal as reference (such as Mutec Ref10 or Cybershaft), it will perform much much better sonically.
Its 10M clock input is exactly for this purpose.

 

[microstrip]

The answer is that if the Vivaldi Clock is given a good 10M clock signal as reference (such as Mutec Ref10 or Cybershaft), it will perform much much better sonically.
Its 10M clock input is exactly for this purpose.

Exactly - the Vivaldi clock will sinchronize to the Mutec REF10 or other low phase noise clock, becoming a low phase noise clock.

 

[CKKeung]

As my only source for the dCS system is a network based Roon Nucleus, it would seem that a master clock is not worth any investment. If the Nucleus and my network switch supported one, that might make it worthwhile. Let me know if I am misunderstanding things.

Hello Steve,
What's your network switch?

If it's a SOtM sHN-10G which has a 10M clock input, a Mutec Ref10 or Cybershaft Limited2 with multiple 10M clock outputs can syn it as well, in additional to your Vivaldi Clock.

I can guarantee that you will be very very surprised by the sonic improvement.

 

[SCAudiophile]

The so called 'atomic clocks' (with Rubidium oscillators) are no match performance wise for this Mutec or CyberShaft models.

+1

 

[microme]

The so called 'atomic clocks' (with Rubidium oscillators) are no match performance wise for this Mutec or CyberShaft models.

Does it mean that I can get better sound if I switch my rubidium clock to Mutec or Cybershaft OXCO clock?
(Currently I have Vivaldi DAC, Vivaldi Master clock and rubidium clock(Antelope 10M) which is connected to Vivaldi Master Clock as a reference input. )

 

[CKKeung]

Does it that mean that I can get better sound if I switch my rubidium clock to Mutec or Cybershaft OXCO clock?
(Currently I have Vivaldi DAC, Vivaldi Master clock and rubidium clock(Antelope 10M) which is connected to Vivaldi Master Clock as a reference input. )

Audiophiles in HK had compared Antelope 10M vs Cyberahaft OP14.
They are on par. The former is warmer whereas the latter is with higher resolution & agility.

Therefore Mutec Ref10 and Cybershaft OP17-20 must be much better than Antelope 10M.

 

[jackson_k]

Try to borrow the Mutec Ref-10 to try if you can.

Bro ,, have you tried the MUTEC REF10? I have a mutec usb- reclocker and its great ! , trying to add 10mhz external clock but debating if I should go with SRS or the MUTEC,, thanx !

 

[CKKeung]

Bro ,, have you tried the MUTEC REF10? I have a mutec usb- reclocker and its great ! , trying to add 10mhz external clock but debating if I should go with SRS or the MUTEC,, thanx !

IMHO : must be the Mutec Ref10!

 

[nonesup]

Steve
Can I ask, what is the Roon Nucleus? Is it the new Roon+ Nucleus music server? I am after thoughts on how it performs, as seems promising to me...

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Nucleus_Manual

 

[jackson_k]

I wonder if Roon Nucleus vs Auralic G2 which one is a better Roon endpoint ? anyone gave that a try yet ?

 

[jackson_k]

On the MUTEC REF 10 ,,, basically its the best option out there as far as 10mhz clock goes? what cable do you guys use with the MUTECs?

 

[TLi]

On the MUTEC REF 10 ,,, basically its the best option out there as far as 10mhz clock goes? what cable do you guys use with the MUTECs?

For similar money, you can buy Cybershaft OP18 or OP19. Although OP20 has sold out, I am confident that OP18/19 will be better than MUTEC REF 10.

I use Nordost Valhalla 2 BNC cables for my clock system. They are fairly expensive but recently in another OP20 user place, Valhalla 2 beats Cybershaft cable in seconds.

 

[CKKeung]

Hello Jackaon,
Currently the best OP19 & OP20 are sold out.
Please contact Cybershaft directly for pre-ordering or inclusion on their waiting list.

The Cybershaft OP18 is still available but may be just very slightly better than the Mutec Ref10.
If you want to get one asap, both are suitable upgrades.

On the MUTEC REF 10 ,,, basically its the best option out there as far as 10mhz clock goes? what cable do you guys use with the MUTECs?

 

[stevebythebay]

Just to follow up: the dCS Clock with cabling has settled in. Sounds really exceptional. Spent time discussing my hardware configuration with folks at dCS as well as a number of dealers and customers. All suggest that the benefits of adding any addition clock pale in comparison with a focused effort on my Roon Nucleus network connection to the dCS Upsampler. I’m therefore looking forward, when it becomes available, to implementing an Uptone EtherREGEN switch, for both isolation and clocking purposes.