Dedicated audio room build thread aka The Big Dig

[HughP3]

When do we see pics of room done
next some videos please

10-4. Install is scheduled for March 16-18. i hope shipping confirmation is soon.

ps and just saw your “about” with IRS Beta V! Do you have a link to pictures?

 

[John T]

Hugh I see you have a Torus WM 60 Bal. Do you have any regrets or limitations with not going with a larger unit? I'm attempting to get my head around this and trying to make the correct choice. I have Mephisto and hopefully will also go down the APEX road. I talked with Kevin at Torus, explained what I have and potential future plans and he recommended WM 100 Bal. Just getting my feet wet at this point and trying to grasp what I am doing. Any input will be most appreciated. All The Best...


John

 

[HughP3]

Hugh I see you have a Torus WM 60 Bal. Do you have any regrets or limitations with not going with a larger unit? I'm attempting to get my head around this and trying to make the correct choice. I have Mephisto and hopefully will also go down the APEX road. I talked with Kevin at Torus, explained what I have and potential future plans and he recommended WM 100 Bal. Just getting my feet wet at this point and trying to grasp what I am doing. Any input will be most appreciated. All The Best...

The
John

Hi john,
I don’t remember exactly who i dealt with but they did the calculations for me and said the 60 amp would provide all power i needed. I told them to plan with data from mephisto solos, the powered subs and all the other equipment. They said they calculate at full output. Anyhow i have not had any issues yet and i pushed the system pretty hard at times 92-95db continuous with peaks 108 or higher. I could not do a before vs after just took on faith after researching i needed the torus.

 

[John T]

Thank You Hugh, Just spoke with the county inspector, they will not allow a 2nd meter. My intent was separate power line. So this leaves me with 2 choices, ( 3 if I jump in the river behind my house)! Pull a line from my existing 200amp panel to the Torus or pull a line from a secondary building that has very little circuitry in that panel. The 3rd choice is growing on me! Thanks Again...

John

 

[HughP3]

Thank You Hugh, Just spoke with the county inspector, they will not allow a 2nd meter. My intent was separate power line. So this leaves me with 2 choices, ( 3 if I jump in the river behind my house)! Pull a line from my existing 200amp panel to the Torus or pull a line from a secondary building that has very little circuitry in that panel. The 3rd choice is growing on me! Thanks Again...

John

Lol yes its a pain! I split my 200 amps at the shop To power the barn with 100.

By end of next week the new system will be in. I can the crank it and read from the torus box just how many amps it is providing.

 

[John T]

Hugh how far is the run from the shop to the barn? If I pull from my Wine building it will be over 200' when finished trenching. The easiest way for me is use my existing 200 amp panel, enhance my grounding system, and call it a day. It would be approx. 30' from panel to where I would mount Torus, and all my dedicated circuits will be significantly shorter. I'm sure your getting excited with the new arrivals! I would be too! Have Fun...

 

[HughP3]

Hugh how far is the run from the shop to the barn? If I pull from my Wine building it will be over 200' when finished trenching. The easiest way for me is use my existing 200 amp panel, enhance my grounding system, and call it a day. It would be approx. 30' from panel to where I would mount Torus, and all my dedicated circuits will be significantly shorter. I'm sure your getting excited with the new arrivals! I would be too! Have Fun...

Its about 100 feet of run fro shop. Not sure what AG that wire was. From torus to outlets is 10awg and maybe 40 feet

 

[John T]

Most likely 6awg. Does the Torus make much noise? Thinking about mounting it in a closet, no basement, just crawl space, not many options...

 

[HughP3]

Most likely 6awg. Does the Torus make much noise? Thinking about mounting it in a closet, no basement, just crawl space, not many options...

None

 

[LL21]

Same here. Much smaller Torus AVR16. Silent. On/off you would not know by listening standing next to it.

 

[tinkerphile]

Finally some measurements! These graphs and write up is from Mike Burns owner of Wolfsong Audio consultants.


The first image is from the final placement of the speakers and the seating. It is the Energy Storage Plot. Reference volume was 70 db. Short Sine sweep tone. The results show the room holds on to very little energy from 500 to 2K cycles and then has a fairly regular pattern from 2K to 15K. This means the room is not over damped and has a regular dissipation pattern. The fact that the higher frequency energy is stored up to and a bit beyond 14+ cycles shows that the room is not just a damped chamber but that ( IMHO ) the Diffusor panels are doing what they are supposed to in conjunction with the side wall absorbers.



2nd Image is the waterfall plot. Reference volume again was 70 db. Short sine sweep tone. I may have run the test with very short tracing as the graph runs to just 5 milliseconds. But the results to 5 Ms are impressive. With nearly zero measured “ring’ below 2K the bass and lower midrange is absorbed and dissipated almost totally. The 2K to 10 readings show rapid and even dissipation. We may want to do a 100 to 200 Ms reading later to see how long that decay does last.



My assessment of the measurements is that the room has very well controlled reflection and energy dissipation in the sub bass, bass, mi bass and lower midrange regions. I the mid to upper mid and treble the room exhibits even and rapid dissipation of energy without being over damped.



To my ears the room and system play with even response and the room effectively “disappears” into the soundfield. No mean feat with 7 foot tall speakers that play down to 16Hz! I also noted a very “natural” feel to the room upon entering. In walking around and speaking with you at no point did I feel like the room was taking away the natural decay of our voices.


View attachment 86216 View attachment 86215

Are these the only measurements taken? From Wolfsong's comments, it looks like this is all he is interested in saying (?). Thanks.

 

[Aussienut]

Same here. Much smaller Torus AVR16. Silent. On/off you would not know by listening standing next to it.

Same here. I use a Torus AVR16 and have had no issues including capacity to supply my system. Also makes it a bit easier in Australia as we have 415/240vac.

 

[heebrog]

@Aussienut; if you don't mind me asking; what do you use your P10 for if you have the Torus AVR 16?

 

[Aussienut]

@Aussienut; if you don't mind me asking; what do you use your P10 for if you have the Torus AVR 16?

@heebrog, I had the P10 before the Torus AVR16. I also had a Krell FPB300cx at the time that after many years of trouble free operation, every now and then the transformer started to mechanically hum. Time of day or night, switching appliances in the house off, nothing worked to stop the intermediate hum. The P10 couldn’t stop it. I tried various dc blockers but still the hum would occur at random times. Finally I contacted the Australian Krell distributor and they had helped other customers with similar hum problems. Their advice was to try Torus which had worked for others. Luckily they had a secondhand unit at the time. I tried it and the FPB300cx never hummed again. This amp was eventually replaced with Evo 400e monoblocks which have never had this problem but always powered directly from the AVR16.

The current setup has the P10 supplied from the AVR16 which supplies the EMM Labs NS1 and DAC2X and Krell Evo 202 pre. This is a light load (not an ideal load for the P10) so the P10 is basically a filtered distribution board. BTW, the THD from the supply to my house ranges from 2.5 - 3.5%. The Torus strips out 1.5 to 2.0% and the P10 then gets the THD down to 0.1%. So to be fair the P10 doing a bit more than just working as a distribution board.

So my system now has the Torus AVR16 supplying the two Evo 400e monoblocks, two Velodyne subwoofers and the P10. Hope this helps.

 

[John T]

Hugh, Lloyd thanks for the input in regards to noise. I'm also curious if Taiko Extreme owners prefer something like Torus RM15 or RM20 with the Taiko? Or directly to dedicated outlet? Torus is advising (which makes sense) separate the front end through RM15/20 from the Analog. All The Best...

John

 

[Alrainbow]

when we make posts on power its helpful, if we state country and even more important voltage used .
most all tranfomers can hum based on given conditions of load and size . higher working voltage also has an effect at times . dc offset or signwave distorion can do this . smaller transfomers have more wire resistnce and are more insullated from the effect . larger much more effected , no matter who makes the transformer . even if quite the effects are there . if one meaured the input voltage and compared to output using a chart , you could see when its effecting it. you need to take reading many times and document the readings . the input will most likly never match the output for a few reasons this is fine and exoexted , what you look for is a varience of output . most all input voltages should remain constant , if they vary you have other issues IE voltage drop . .as the signwave distorion rises the output will fall if under a load . this is what happens to power amps . a regen fixes this , a regulated powwer amp does to . most or some amp makers dont and the ones that do rarly do this at the output devices just input and drivers .
lastly any large iso to be used should not be in the audio room or far away from our audio not just for noise , buts its EMF effedts .

 

[heebrog]

Hope this doesn't derail the thread but I'm also in Australia @Aussienut where as you know power is 240V/50Hz.
The transformer in my Taiko Extreme is rated at 230V input and used to hum when plug into my AC utility even via a Sound Application PGI TT-7. I tried it on a Shunyata Denali V2 and a DC blocker as well but no better. I considered a Torus but am now on a LiPo Battery and AC-DC inverter which has solved the issue. It's a poor man's Stromtank.
I take your point @Alrainbow that the inverter is likely putting out lots of EMF as well so should be placed as far away as possible.

 

[John T]

Excellent Points. Not all applications mimic each other. Certainly North American Grid vs another countries grid is certainly pertinent. Also your observation about EMF is duly noted. I was thinking a closet in my listening room, I am now considering spare bedroom for the panel, which is further away...

 

[rbbert]

How do you all manage with only 200 amps? My house and garden total over 400 amps over 3 panels (1 meter) and I'll need a bit more when I install an EV charger...

 

[John T]

Typical North American Homes, 200 amps is pretty standard. Are you welding? 400amps is a lot of circuits. I have a 8KW sauna, the range another 40 amp, 6 dedicated audio circuits, all the other circuits for the house, well, lift pump for septic, still room for more.