Delta Sigma Versus R2R Ladder

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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I had a wonderful afternoon at the home of Phil (213cobra) on Tuesday! Phil's Bricasti DAC (one of the several he owns) can switch between delta sigma and R2R at the touch of a button.

On Fleetwood Mac and Sarah McLachlan I think maybe I could hear a difference, but there is no way I would be able to A/B it. On classical music I think I could tell the difference by focusing on (what I articulated as) the harmonic richness (maybe decay?) of piano and triangle.

Across genres and recordings there is no doubt I had a preference for the R2R. Phil says that there is something slightly more analog-y sounding about the R2R. That must be what I was hearing. That is enough for me to know that I want an R2R DAC in the future.

This was the first time I had been to Phil's house by myself, and so the first time I could really focus on listening to, and enjoying, his Zu Definition system driven by a wonderful inventory of tube amps of varied designs. Phil's knowledge of tubes and of tube circuits is encyclopedic.

The pure analog signal path on the Definition system, fronted by an SPU cartridge, sounded fantastic! I was happy to sit there and listen all day!

Phil can switch between this all-analog signal path, and an alternative signal path which converts the analog signal to digital (Phil, please feel free to explain this signal path). The digital conversion signal sounded very good! Only by focusing on the twinkle-y-ness of a triangle and a slight dryness would I have a chance of A/B-ing the two signal paths accurately. Digital has gotten very good, but I still often hear a slight tell-tale dryness or electronic-ness or a slight loss of transparency compared to a pure analog system playing analog recordings.

A very big thanks to Phil and Frances for a wonderful afternoon and evening!
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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I had a wonderful afternoon at the home of Phil (213cobra) on Tuesday! Phil's Bricasti DAC (one of the several he owns) can switch between delta sigma and R2R at the touch of a button.

On Fleetwood Mac and Sarah McLachlan I think maybe I could hear a difference, but there is no way I would be able to A/B it. On classical music I think I could tell the difference by focusing on (what I articulated as) the harmonic richness (maybe decay?) of piano and triangle.

Across genres and recordings there is no doubt I had a preference for the R2R. Phil says that there is something slightly more analog-y sounding about the R2R. That must be what I was hearing. That is enough for me to know that I want an R2R DAC in the future.

This was the first time I had been to Phil's house by myself, and so the first time I could really focus on listening to, and enjoying, his Zu Definition system driven by a wonderful inventory of tube amps of varied designs. Phil's knowledge of tubes and of tube circuits is encyclopedic.

The pure analog signal path on the Definition system, fronted by an SPU cartridge, sounded fantastic! I was happy to sit there and listen all day!

Phil can switch between this all-analog signal path, and an alternative signal path which converts the analog signal to digital (Phil, please feel free to explain this signal path). The digital conversion signal sounded very good! Only by focusing on the twinkle-y-ness of a triangle and a slight dryness would I have a chance of A/B-ing the two signal paths accurately. Digital has gotten very good, but I still often hear a slight tell-tale dryness or electronic-ness or a slight loss of transparency compared to a pure analog system playing analog recordings.

A very big thanks to Phil and Frances for a wonderful afternoon and evening!

When I compared some of the Lampi dacs with Lukasz he told me I have a preference for R2R. My GG is R2R and I could hear a distinct difference with chip at that time. It is in dynamic range, effortlessness, and flow. It is difficult to compare it to latter chip dacs as a lot apart from R2R and chip would have changed in between.
 

Ron Resnick

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The three DACs I will choose among -- Lampizator Baltic3, Holo May KTE and SW1X DAC II are all R2R, I believe.
 

bonzo75

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The three DACs I will choose among -- Lampizator Baltic3, Holo May KTE and SW1X DAC II are all R2R, I believe.

The DHt will make a much more difference which Baltic is not as compared to GG
 

Ron Resnick

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Ron Resnick

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tsaett

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May 20, 2014
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Hi Ron,
I am using the same Bricasti Dac and consider the 3 (with the 1 bit DSD converter) DAC options a real value.
While with my former Nola speakers I preferred the delta sigma, with my current Eggs I prefer the r2r.
However, the digital filter (min / lin phase) has just as great (or small depending how you hear it) an effect. With the Nolas I preferred linear phase, with the Eggs I chose minimum phase.

It is nice to be able to choose...

Christoph
 
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jespera

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2018
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I had a wonderful afternoon at the home of Phil (213cobra) on Tuesday! Phil's Bricasti DAC (one of the several he owns) can switch between delta sigma and R2R at the touch of a button.

On Fleetwood Mac and Sarah McLachlan I think maybe I could hear a difference, but there is no way I would be able to A/B it. On classical music I think I could tell the difference by focusing on (what I articulated as) the harmonic richness (maybe decay?) of piano and triangle.

Across genres and recordings there is no doubt I had a preference for the R2R. Phil says that there is something slightly more analog-y sounding about the R2R. That must be what I was hearing. That is enough for me to know that I want an R2R DAC in the future.

This was the first time I had been to Phil's house by myself, and so the first time I could really focus on listening to, and enjoying, his Zu Definition system driven by a wonderful inventory of tube amps of varied designs. Phil's knowledge of tubes and of tube circuits is encyclopedic.

The pure analog signal path on the Definition system, fronted by an SPU cartridge, sounded fantastic! I was happy to sit there and listen all day!

Phil can switch between this all-analog signal path, and an alternative signal path which converts the analog signal to digital (Phil, please feel free to explain this signal path). The digital conversion signal sounded very good! Only by focusing on the twinkle-y-ness of a triangle and a slight dryness would I have a chance of A/B-ing the two signal paths accurately. Digital has gotten very good, but I still often hear a slight tell-tale dryness or electronic-ness or a slight loss of transparency compared to a pure analog system playing analog recordings.

A very big thanks to Phil and Frances for a wonderful afternoon and evening!

Yes r2r sounds more natural. Over time you’ll notice.

You need an abbas dac.

Ive had his dac 2.1se for 3-4 years and recently upgraded to his 3.2 . The 2.1 was great but the big bottle 3.2 is awesome.

Fits your budget nicely too.
 
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Ron Resnick

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I just noticed this interesting post about why SW1X has chosen R2R:

 

Ron Resnick

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Are you sure Baltic3 is based on R2R ? Its not very clear from their website.

No, I am not sure. I was told that Lampizator uses R2R.
 

Mike Lavigne

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my guess is at that under $5k price point, execution and the analog output circuit (to fit your system balance and personal taste) will rule much more than dac design dogma. unless you do lots of very high resolution heavy lifting with complex music (not girl with guitar).

so i would not limit yourself based on this issue. you may find the right $5k dac for you anywhere.
 

MRJAZZ

Industry Expert
Jan 20, 2014
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Thank you, Roger, but I'm looking in the US$3,000 to US$5,000 range for a DAC.
Check out the new SCHIIT Yggdrasil “Less Is More” DAC.... Uses Four TI Dac 8812 chip’s .
The current “buzz” on the Internet is that this is their best DAC so far. They actually have 3 different versions of the latest Yggdrasiil DAC, with three distinctive tonal flavors. The “Less is More” model has the most “Analog”, sound characteristics of the three, ( the other two are described as “ Neutral” ( the “MORE IS LESS” version, and finally the “OG” version, being described as the most detailed, etc. Anyway something to consider, although it’s less money than your target search bracket ( 2199.00 to 2599.00 for the OG version).

Cheers....
 

BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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I will stay with the DAC built into the Lumin X1. Aside from sounding fantastic, it saves users thousands of dollars by eliminating a power cord and interconnect cables.
 

jespera

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Jan 12, 2018
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Chord Hugo TT2 is worth a listen. The MScaler could be added later if desired.

… only really to flesh out the difference btw r2r and delta sigma.

To my small ears, my hugo sounds the exact opposite of my r2r dacs.
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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Check out the new SCHIIT Yggdrasil “Less Is More” DAC.... Uses Four TI Dac 8812 chip’s .
The current “buzz” on the Internet is that this is their best DAC so far. They actually have 3 different versions of the latest Yggdrasiil DAC, with three distinctive tonal flavors. The “Less is More” model has the most “Analog”, sound characteristics of the three, ( the other two are described as “ Neutral” ( the “MORE IS LESS” version, and finally the “OG” version, being described as the most detailed, etc. Anyway something to consider, although it’s less money than your target search bracket ( 2199.00 to 2599.00 for the OG version).

Cheers....

I think Ron is looking for an overall more relaxed sound than the Yggdrasil offers. I certainly wouldn't recommend to him the Yggy OG that I have (formerly called "Analog 2") and which is exactly to my taste for tension-filled excitement. Having said that, with relaxed music it does sound perfectly relaxed, and it is very adept at romantic phrasing when asked for; it's not a souped-up sound.

But perhaps the "Less is More" version would be more to Ron's taste; I'll probably get to hear it soon in a friend's system directly compared to the OG. I'll let Ron know how the sound flavor turns out.

And if I like it, I can have upgraded my Yggy version 1 (which I also still have) for just $ 450. You gotta love Schiit's upgrade policy, which in contrast to some other companies is not just empty promises.

As for it being cheaper than Ron's target price range: sometimes "Less is More" ;).
 
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