Digital Director/ProUSB: No need for a dedicated streamer/server?

[Young Skywalker]

I see you removed the Select model from the line up. What are select owners supposed to think?

The Reference DAC has also been removed.

Both Reference and Select lines are discontinued.

This is because the new Cascade DAC is closest in price point to a Reference DAC/Reference Director pairing with performance that eclipses the Select DAC/Select or Reference Director pairing.

A new DAC to eclipse all of MSB’s prior efforts is forthcoming for those with some patience and seemingly unfettered financial means. We can only speculate on what that might look like? Even more DAC modules? Separate left and right channel power supplies for the analog converter chassis? Even better clock? Time will tell.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

The Reference DAC has also been removed.

Both Reference and Select lines are discontinued.

This is because the new Cascade DAC is closest in price point to a Reference DAC/Reference Director pairing with performance that eclipses the Select DAC/Select or Reference Director pairing.

A new DAC to eclipse all of MSB’s prior efforts is forthcoming for those with some patience and seemingly unfettered financial means. We can only speculate on what that might look like? Even more DAC modules? Separate left and right channel power supplies for the analog converter chassis? Even better clock? Time will tell.

My guess is not discontinued as such, I think there will be a split the Cascade and successors will indeed be the flagship line but I suspect there will be an entry point below it.

 

[Young Skywalker]

My guess is not discontinued as such, I think there will be a split the Cascade and successors will indeed be the flagship line but I suspect there will be an entry point below it.

Yes, indeed. The Discrete and Premier DACs will continue with the option of a Premier Digital Director. Does a fully loaded Premier/Director combo create too much of a price gap to the Cascade? Maybe. Is it a logical step down in performance from the Cascade? Possibly.

Those who wish to use the DAC as the sole volume control for a system that includes an analog source previously chose the Reference DAC over the Premier DAC. Now that same group must choose the Cascade over the Premier, with better than Select DAC digital performance as a bonus.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Yes, indeed. The Discrete and Premier DACs will continue with the option of a Premier Digital Director. Does a fully loaded Premier/Director combo create too much of a price gap to the Cascade? Maybe. Is it a logical step down in performance from the Cascade? Possibly.

Those who wish to use the DAC as the sole volume control for a system that includes an analog source previously chose the Reference DAC over the Premier DAC. Now that same group must choose the Cascade over the Premier, with better than Select DAC digital performance as a bonus.

The question in my mind is since the modular approach is likely also to be split for the 2 product lines. Will a CPU and power hungry (imaginary) module called Renderer v4 (that supports Spotify (when they finally release the High Res service) and Tidal )) be available for both or only the Cascade lineup.

 

[Daniel Gullman]

The question in my mind is since the modular approach is likely also to be split for the 2 product lines. Will a CPU and power hungry (imaginary) module called Renderer v4 (that supports Spotify (when they finally release the High Res service) and Tidal )) be available for both or only the Cascade lineup.

Future modules will be backwards compatible with the Select, Reference, Premier, and Discrete. The theoretical V4 renderer will have those features and work with the listed DAC's

Keep in mind, I use a Premier DAC at home, so I will be looking out for keeping all models supported as long as possible.

 

[Daniel Gullman]

Yes, indeed. The Discrete and Premier DACs will continue with the option of a Premier Digital Director. Does a fully loaded Premier/Director combo create too much of a price gap to the Cascade? Maybe. Is it a logical step down in performance from the Cascade? Possibly.

Those who wish to use the DAC as the sole volume control for a system that includes an analog source previously chose the Reference DAC over the Premier DAC. Now that same group must choose the Cascade over the Premier, with better than Select DAC digital performance as a bonus.

You are correct on all counts!

We, as a company, don't design around price. That is why the Cascade fell into a weird space between the Select and Reference. We could have sold it for more than the Select if that was our focus. It is unlikely we will make a DAC in the price point just to have something there. We make the best products in a range of categories and sell them for the best pricing we can. Otherwise, we would have a cheaper Discrete DAC... but are not willing to make any compromises to get there.

 

[Daniel Gullman]

I see you removed the Select model from the line up. What are select owners supposed to think?

Both the Reference and Select have been removed as all of our stock has been sold. Even after the announcement of the Cascade we sold many more Reference DAC's. Just because the stock has been sold, does not mean they will not be supported. Future input modules will be designed for the Select and Reference. We still have and are making Digital Directors for both DACs. A new DAC does not make the previous generation sound any different.

 

[Daniel Gullman]

Would Aurender be on the list of 5?

Alas, we can't disclose what our partners are working on... but you can reach out directly to John Kim to find out their plans.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Future modules will be backwards compatible with the Select, Reference, Premier, and Discrete. The theoretical V4 renderer will have those features and work with the listed DAC's

Keep in mind, I use a Premier DAC at home, so I will be looking out for keeping all models supported as long as possible.

Ahh, but you have just removed a major "mental" cost justification for my choosing to get a cascade

 

[Daniel Gullman]

Ahh, but you have just removed a major "mental" cost justification for my choosing to get a cascade

Heh, I am a bad salesman... I have never pushed or coerced anyone they need our gear. We all do this for fun, if you want it, go for it! Otherwise enjoy what you've got. This would otherwise sound like an Apple tactic of a new software feature only working on the latest hardware

We make the most advanced and highest performing gear we can and are lucky enough folks support us! The only good reason to update to the Cascade DAC is it sounds really damn good.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Heh, I am a bad salesman... I have never pushed or coerced anyone they need our gear. We all do this for fun, if you want it, go for it! Otherwise enjoy what you've got. This would otherwise sound like an Apple tactic of a new software feature only working on the latest hardware

We make the most advanced and highest performing gear we can and are lucky enough folks support us! The only good reason to update to the Cascade DAC is it sounds really damn good.

The opposite, it makes you the kind of guy I listen to. One that says at the end of the day beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

And the backwards compatibility aspect is to be commended, but reality is sooner or later every product line will hit the brick wall where a feature/capability can't be backported anymore. I lack a crystal ball but I am glad that my hypothetical rendered v4 isn't the breaking point.

And Vince said the same, about the Cascade, I am very excited to listen to it on the 23rd of Aug.

 

[Daniel Gullman]

And the backwards compatibility aspect is to be commended, but reality is sooner or later every product line will hit the brick wall where a feature/capability can't be backported anymore. I lack a crystal ball but I am glad that my hypothetical rendered v4 isn't the breaking point.

Appreciated.

Yes, frustrating, but true. That day will come, but we will push the form factor for as long as possible! Modern electronics have short and shorter lifespans, but we can do better. Changing the form factor better be a pretty nifty upgrade to make it worth the headache for everyone involved.

Enjoy your audition!

 

[tdx44]

Appreciated.

Yes, frustrating, but true. That day will come, but we will push the form factor for as long as possible! Modern electronics have short and shorter lifespans, but we can do better. Changing the form factor better be a pretty nifty upgrade to make it worth the headache for everyone involved.

Enjoy your audition!

FWIW you have the most correct approach about this. Will DACs evolve in processing power and can only get better power by being replaced? Sure. But the thing that's changed the most in the past few years, and that creates the most pain points in a music system, is changing formats/inputs. So the way I see it while we may get better SQ/processing power in the future by upgrading to a better MSB DAC, at least those of us who can't afford to do so right away will at least be able to deal with changing formats by swapping modules. That is a forward thinking way of approaching the issue by MSB and I for one appreciate it and based my purchasing decision partly based on this.

 

[Daniel Gullman]

FWIW you have the most correct approach about this. Will DACs evolve in processing power and can only get better power by being replaced? Sure. But the thing that's changed the most in the past few years, and that creates the most pain points in a music system, is changing formats/inputs. So the way I see it while we may get better SQ/processing power in the future by upgrading to a better MSB DAC, at least those of us who can't afford to do so right away will at least be able to deal with changing formats by swapping modules. That is a forward thinking way of approaching the issue by MSB and I for one appreciate it and based my purchasing decision partly based on this.

That is exactly our understanding. We are still enabling inputs for 10+ year old DAC’s. The Analog DAC is Roon certified… after all those years! Pretty fun to keep our products connected to modern formats and interfaces.

 

[tdx44]

Wanted to update this thread with my experience in case it's useful for others who are in the same dilemma as I was. I ended up getting both the Antipodes K50 (G4) and the Premier Digital Director. I got the K50 first and compared to just the Premier with no DD it did make a nice improvement in sound quality, mainly the detail, smoothness and spatial presentation of the music. So I was all set to keep it as a permanent part of my chain. But then I managed to score a DD and I tested it both with and without the K50.

Bottom line was that when used with the K50, it did bring a very subtle sound improvement but not that big. However, when I took out the K50 and just used my (noisy) server with the DD, it brought the same SQ improvements that I got the K50. Plus now all the inputs (I have all the MSB input modules) sound pretty much the same which is very useful.

So in end I decided to keep the DD and was going back and forth about also keeping the K50. But then I realized, as long as I don't upgrade the Premier, the DD will be a constant qualitative addition to it, and I don't really have to worry about what source I use thanks to it. Whereas the K50, while amazing, is a hefty investment that will become obsolete at some point in the not too far future, and then I would have to upgrade it, replace it with a new unit etc. So with that in mind I decided to let go of the K50 and stay with the Premier and DD. I have zero regrets about my choice and I'm enjoying the combo every day since.

 

[Daniel Gullman]

Plus now all the inputs (I have all the MSB input modules) sound pretty much the same which is very useful.

Yes, yes, yes! This is exactly what the DD is going for. It is a barrier for sources that levels the playing field. Allowing you to pick and choose what you want to use based on the interface and preferences over having to purchase the ultimate source. It makes me really happy to hear when someone evaluates one of our products and is able to so clearly figure out it strengths. Well done and thanks for sharing!

 

[tdx44]

My pleasure Daniel, and also thank you for making a product like the Digital Director that allows me not to have to worry about which source/input I use anymore. One less thing to obsess about. God knows there enough complexities and areas of uncertainty in the digital audio wold, removing one of the main ones is a huge win in my book