Do Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Have a Digital Step in the Process?

[Ron Resnick]

In the interest of intellectual honesty, for the record, I have to admit to being wrong about the lawsuit question. I did not think that even on a class action basis a plaintiff’s firm would be confident enough about proving damages to commence a lawsuit.

I did not appreciate the business model of class action plaintiffs’ attorneys simply to file a lawsuit speculatively at a small initial expense outlay, see if they can get a class certified, and then angle for a settlement.

 

[Joe Whip]

There was a class action lawyer near me who would find a plaintiff, even if he has a very nominal interest, file a suit hoping that the company would quickly settle, which they did several times for big bucks. The lawyer got millions, the plaintiff pennies.The lawyer built up quite the practice but I think he was eventually disbarred. I am not a fan of the class action lawsuit.

 

[dminches]

Best bet isn’t evidence.

The engineer who mastered the CCR Live recording is known for half-speed mastering using a digital work station. My “best guess” wasn’t just pulled out of the air. Here is an excerpt from an interview with him about his general process:

MS: The most challenging process by far – as well as the Achilles’ heel of half-speed mastering – is de-essing, which is often required to avoid sibilance (vocal distortion on the record). None of the tools I would ordinarily use for de-essing work at half speed, so I need to pre-treat everything by capturing all the audio at high-resolution digital, then treating every “sss” or “t” sound in every vocal on every song before progressing.

Because I wanted these cuts to be as good as possible, I used a similar process to the click removal already mentioned. It would have been easy to slap a de-esser across the signal path when making the high-resolution transfer, but the de-esser would not be able to differentiate between a bright vocal or a snare drum, hi-hat, bright guitar, tambourine and other high-energy sounds that don’t require any reduction.

Again, my method is slow and time consuming, but only treats the offending vocal problems and leaves the rest of the music untouched.

Here is the entire interview if you are interested: https://musictech.com/features/miles-showell-interview-half-speed-mastering/

The release is from digital files but the wording makes one think it isn’t or may not be.

 

[Audire]

I will have to read the complaint, but as a retired trial lawyer who worked cases in federal court and one in the Supreme Court, there are many issues here. The biggest is class certification because without it, I do not see these two lead plaintiffs meeting the $75,000 threshold for diversity, even considering the possibility of punitive damages. With the claims based on state law, I could see a federal judge interpreting things narrowly and kicking the case out To be dealt with at the state court level. I have known a couple federal judges who would be loathe to have this type of case in the federal system, with state court remedies available. Without class certification, I just do not see this case staying in federal court. Then you have the issue of fraud and damages. Now consumer protection laws are not my area of expertise, but is the undisclosed digital step amount to legal fraud? You are still buying a record in all likelihood a great sounding one. If it can be proven that the DSD transfer is transparent to the master, what is the injury? For people who buy these one steps in part as an investment vs. actual use, that may be a bit too speculative for the court to consider. I am not even sure that the purposes of these laws is to protect that interest. Finally, my experience with class action lawsuits is that the only winners are the lawyers, on both sides. The actual plaintiffs get very little. Given all these considerations, would audiophiles like to see MoFi and Music Direct driven out of business so that a few lawyers get to make a killing? For these reasons, I do not really see this case going anywhere. But, I could be wrong.

I'm not sure if you saw it or not but the complaint is on post #625. Even though you aren’t practicing any more, I’m sure many here would be interested in your legal opinion.

 

[Audire]

The engineer who mastered the CCR Live recording is known for half-speed mastering using a digital work station. My “best guess” wasn’t just pulled out of the air. Here is an excerpt from an interview with him about his general process:

MS: The most challenging process by far – as well as the Achilles’ heel of half-speed mastering – is de-essing, which is often required to avoid sibilance (vocal distortion on the record). None of the tools I would ordinarily use for de-essing work at half speed, so I need to pre-treat everything by capturing all the audio at high-resolution digital, then treating every “sss” or “t” sound in every vocal on every song before progressing.

Because I wanted these cuts to be as good as possible, I used a similar process to the click removal already mentioned. It would have been easy to slap a de-esser across the signal path when making the high-resolution transfer, but the de-esser would not be able to differentiate between a bright vocal or a snare drum, hi-hat, bright guitar, tambourine and other high-energy sounds that don’t require any reduction.

Again, my method is slow and time consuming, but only treats the offending vocal problems and leaves the rest of the music untouched.

Here is the entire interview if you are interested: https://musictech.com/features/miles-showell-interview-half-speed-mastering/

The release is from digital files but the wording makes one think it isn’t or may not be.

It appears that this is a digital remaster that is being advertised as a full analogue process. So IMO they should be treated the same as MoFi.

 

[dminches]

It appears that this is a digital remaster that is being advertised as a full analogue process. So IMO they should be treated the same as MoFi.

I agree. There are others who are arguing that if it doesn’t say AAA you should know it is ADA or some form of that. I think that part is BS. Tell us what you are selling.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I agree. There are others who are arguing that if it doesn’t say AAA you should know it is ADA or some form of that. I think that part is BS. Tell us what you are selling.

100% agreed

 

[wil]

Finally, my experience with class action lawsuits is that the only winners are the lawyers, on both sides. The actual plaintiffs get very little. Given all these considerations, would audiophiles like to see MoFi and Music Direct driven out of business so that a few lawyers get to make a killing? For these reasons, I do not really see this case going anywhere. But, I could be wrong.

Great point. From my limited experience, much of our legal system is built upon enriching the attorneys at the expense everyone else.

 

[Audire]

I agree. There are others who are arguing that if it doesn’t say AAA you should know it is ADA or some form of that. I think that part is BS. Tell us what you are selling.

“Tell us what your selling“ is a polite way of saying be transparent and honest about what you are selling. I like it!

I don’t understand MoFi‘s thought process in this whole matter:

If they thought they were putting out a superior product than why hide the fact they were using digital for well over a decade? Apparently, either MoFi wasn't sold on the quality of its own product and / or they desired more $$$ by deceiving the true analogue vinyl market.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

“Tell us what your selling“ is a polite way of saying be transparent and honest about what you are selling. I like it!

I don’t understand MoFi‘s thought process in this whole matter:

If they thought they were putting out a superior product than why hide the fact they were using digital for well over a decade? Apparently, either MoFi wasn't sold on the quality of its own product and / or they desired more $$$ by deceiving the true analogue vinyl market.

“if they thought they were putting out a superior product…”
…because it is horse crap lol.

Even the most elementary marketeer would hone in on such a selling feature if the company has signed off on it. Obviously they did not because they know full well it is bs.

ymmv yadda yadda

 

[Ron Resnick]

These excerpts are from Jim Davis’ answers to Jonathan Valin’s and Robert Harley’s questions (see Post #630, above) in “MoFi President Jim Davis Addresses the Digital LP-Mastering Controversy”:

“We experimented with making analog copies from the master. Various tape stocks (½**, 1**) and speeds (15ips, 30ips) were tried but rejected. There was no way to overcome the noise-floor disadvantages of copying from one analog tape to another. When we tried DSD, it was immediately clear this was a vastly superior method for maximizing information retrieval. Developed as an archival format, DSD is sonically transparent, with a very low noise floor. Combined with the painstaking transfer process described below, the capture is a virtual snapshot of the master, revealing detail and nuance at a level that conventional methods could not. Counterintuitively, this capture yields, in our evaluation, superior sonics compared to a cut that is direct from the analog tape to the lathe.” (emphasis added)

“We did extensive evaluations of all aspects of the mastering process and found that using our proprietary gear with these steps yields the best sonic results.” (emphasis added)

—————————————————————————————

So Mobile Fidelity’s latest position is that they began using the digital step to improve sound quality.

This raises the question why wasn’t this sonic superiority over AAA re-issues touted as a reason to buy Mobile Fidelity re-issues beginning in 2011?

The fact that Mobile Fidelity did not disclose this digital step, let alone advertise it affirmatively as being sonically superior to AAA and a reason to purchase Mobile Fidelity’s re-issues, suggests to me that this may be a position recommended recently by the company’s attorney.

This latest response from Jim Davis reflects, I believe, a very different emphasis than his original response:




Why the change in emphasis?

 

[Ed.P]

“DSD is sonically transparent”

This is also weasel wording.

https://timbreluces.com/assets/sacd.pdf

 

[Jeffy]

I'm curious how many here would like to see MOFI go out of business because of their deception.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I'm curious how many here would like to see MOFI go out of business because of their deception.

Would be surprised if we had anyone here who would want them out of business. I think we collectively vary considerably with what would constitute effective remediation.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my own opinion is that in this case it does not serve the community to destroy Mobile Fidelity or Music Direct. but that is where this is going. people will do what people do. not excusing the impropriety.

 

[facten]

It seems that the absolute sound sent written questions to Jim Davis, the owner of Music Direct, to which he responded in writing.

MoFi President Jim Davis Addresses the Digital LP-Mastering Controversy - The Absolute Sound — the absolute sound

MoFi President Jim Davis Addresses the Digital LP-Mastering Controversy - Jim Davis, president of Mofi, gives JV and RH insight into the company's mastering process in this exclusive interview.

apple.news

The questions strike me as “softball.” For example:

“The revelation that MoFi cuts from digital masters has suggested to many that the advantages of a purely analog chain are imaginary. How do you reply to that line of thinking?”​

I do not see any hard questions about past misleading statements. Is the absolute sound letting Michael Fremer carry the water by on the tough stuff?

The questions are definitely skewed to help sweep past the lack of transparency. So much for Mofi redemption

 

[Atmasphere]

There is a digitally controlled system for it. The tech is a little over a decade in use.

Were it so easy you could just get anyone off the street to do the work. Mr. Grundman would be out of a job...

********************

This is just me but if I were looking at buying a MoFi title, the digital aspect would be of no concern- the technology has gotten good enough that it easily rivals tape these days. And so many master tapes are just gone or in deplorable condition, using a digital method might be the only way to pull off a good reissue in good faith.

One thing that is problematic with analog tape is that the noise floor increases over time

The reason I buy LPs isn't for any other reason than storage. I like to think a server farm with its attendant coal-fired plant next door to run it (if you'll pardon the hyperbole) isn't needed just to keep my music library available. This probably shouldn't bother me given that the internet needs the same never-turn-it-off thing going on for it to work, but it does. Since I'm also a manufacturer, I love to see how nice and quiet the LPs can actually be compared to a CD or the like (for that you need a quiet phono section that isn't sensitive to the RFI that is generated by LOMC cartridge use). If I thought that CDs had longevity I would spend more on them (and do when the LP just isn't available) but archival studies by the Library of Congress showed that they don't. Given my age now that's probably less important now than it was 30 years ago when I read those studies.

 

[Audire]

I'm curious how many here would like to see MOFI go out of business because of their deception.

Definitely do not desire to see them go out of business, but I do desire them to be held accountable for what the have been doing for over the past decade. What accountability (justice) in such a case should look like I’m not exactly sure. But IMO at a minimum give back the ill gotten gains they’ve taken over the past decade +.

 

[Leekg]

When considering whether to pursue a lawsuit recently a friend offered useful advice: What would make you "whole"?

We took his advice and found a way to make both parties "whole", and the case was settled.

To those of you aggrieved by MoFi, what would make you "whole"?

 

[Folsom]

Were it so easy you could just get anyone off the street to do the work. Mr. Grundman would be out of a job...

********************

This is just me but if I were looking at buying a MoFi title, the digital aspect would be of no concern- the technology has gotten good enough that it easily rivals tape these days. And so many master tapes are just gone or in deplorable condition, using a digital method might be the only way to pull off a good reissue in good faith.

One thing that is problematic with analog tape is that the noise floor increases over time

The reason I buy LPs isn't for any other reason than storage. I like to think a server farm with its attendant coal-fired plant next door to run it (if you'll pardon the hyperbole) isn't needed just to keep my music library available. This probably shouldn't bother me given that the internet needs the same never-turn-it-off thing going on for it to work, but it does. Since I'm also a manufacturer, I love to see how nice and quiet the LPs can actually be compared to a CD or the like (for that you need a quiet phono section that isn't sensitive to the RFI that is generated by LOMC cartridge use). If I thought that CDs had longevity I would spend more on them (and do when the LP just isn't available) but archival studies by the Library of Congress showed that they don't. Given my age now that's probably less important now than it was 30 years ago when I read those studies.

Easy and easier are not synonymous. And that tech doesn't do the mastering.