Do Tubes Homogenize the Sound of Our Music?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Tim, my comments about homogenized sound is in reference to individual instruments in an orchestra or big band or string Quartet sounding similar to each other in terms of tone and scale and emphasis rather than as distinct separate and different from each other.
This is why I do not think my SET amplifier homogenizes the sound, or more specifically, the individual instruments within a performance. And in no way am I generalizing about tube and solid-state amplifiers.
Yes, I understand - thank you for that. I was mostly playing off the verbiage "to make". My idea being that it is we who make claims about similarity or homogeneity and these are not objective or inherent attributes of tubes or tube sound.
I believe that it depends upon the tube. A tube, generally speaking, imparts no more or less coloration than any other device is capable of doing, though IME, tubes and capacitors tend to be the greatest offenders. OTOH, good tubes and uncluttered tube circuits are capable of amazing transparency as well. So, they certainly are capable of homogenized sound, but so are they capable of disappearing. Tube circuits require less components and should, and generally speaking, do sound better than SS circuits, though great engineers can make complex SS circuits disappear as well, IME, but it would seem more difficult, therefore less likely. YMMV
I read this thread again. It is a designed thread whose purpose is to generate posts by creating controversy and wrangling (which it did), but provided little insight. I thought @christensenleif@msn.com had the only response that tried to make sense of 'homogenize'.
The failure of component X to provide something is similar to the failure of component Y to offer that thing. bonzo added soundstage as another attribute that could be restricted. You could probably use any sonic attribute - those components that lack the attribute are homogenized - which means they lack the attribute in common. I don't know if this is true, but it was effort to explain 'homogenize.' Tubes were thrown in because of something Mike Lavigne said about DACs and to capture interest playing off the tube/SS debate.
Ralph had a good answer to the somewhat silly question about emotional connection to music as homgenization.
Do Tubes Homogenize the Sound of Our Music?
I am still hoping to discover if emotional connectedness to the music is itself a form of homogenization. If that's the question then all good live concerts are homogenized
www.whatsbestforum.com
But what I want to know is why do we get this advert on every page of the thread along with an expandable graphic?
Is it a test drive of a new forum feature - I have not seen it before and don't recall it being there when the thread started. Does everyone see this on every page?
Is scrolling homgenizing WBF?
Tim, I see the same Ron Resnick bio and opening post on every page. I have seen the opening post before repeated on every page at the top of some threads, but not Ron Resnick‘s biography. I think it’s kind of strange.
I agree with your thoughts on the thread topic. It would have been more interesting to simply ask: what does homogenization mean?
I agree with your thoughts on the thread topic. It would have been more interesting to simply ask: what does homogenization mean?
I also thought it was odd. Thanks for looking, Peter. We'll see if any explanation is forthcoming.
Speaking as a designer, I would consider any tube product that did affect the sound in such a way to be a failure.
And speaking as a manufacturer that demonstrates my loudspeakers with what I believe to be (at least) among the finest in solid-state and tube amplification, I would say no. That is not a common characteristic today.
But are there products out there that do this? I guess so but as I said, I would quickly pass on by if that were the case because many if not most do not do that in my opinion.
And speaking as a manufacturer that demonstrates my loudspeakers with what I believe to be (at least) among the finest in solid-state and tube amplification, I would say no. That is not a common characteristic today.
But are there products out there that do this? I guess so but as I said, I would quickly pass on by if that were the case because many if not most do not do that in my opinion.
I would agree that properly designed equipment should not make music sound similar. But there is tendency for designers to voice their designs which can lead to music having a sense of sameness to it.
But we disagree on how much equipment these days is properly designed. Especially if you never listen to music at volumes that never exceed 100dB.
That isn’t the way I read it. Generally homogenized equipment won’t play a banjo or an electric violin properly.
I don't get how music can be homogenized. Its not like you can dump it into a blender. Even really cheap audio products make different kinds of music sound completely different... even if they do sound tinny.
As long as your system is playing some depth and has palpable imaging, its hard to imagine 'homogenization' let along experience it, even with tubes.
As long as your system is playing some depth and has palpable imaging, its hard to imagine 'homogenization' let along experience it, even with tubes.
When I think of "homogenized" music, I think of satalite radio. A compressed signal that cuts frequency extremes and samples too slowly to fully reproduce the nuances of the recorded music.
I have never experienced that with tubes in my system.
In fact, the only component that did anything of the sort for me was the often highly reviewed PS Audio Directstream DAC. It obviously doesn't do the satellite radio treatment, but for whatever reason it just sounded like it put the music in a blender to me. I have no idea what's going on with my ears or brain, but it just sounds wrong and I can't relax when listening. It makes me tired and confused. And I say this as a former Perfectwave dac owner. I "upgraded" twice and both times sold and went back to the PWD. I must just hear different than the people who swear by it. When people say they like it, I discount every equipment recommendation they make because we clearly don't share music reproduction preferences.
You aren't the only one to hear it that way. I enjoyed the DS for a while because it allowed bad recordings to sound OK. But it didn't sound like live music to me and that eventually led me elsewhere for a DAC. Perhaps this quality is system specific because many people like the sound. Maybe it is just listener preference.
The Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC, to me, is like listening in on the recording session. The DS never gave me that experience.
I visited an audiophile friend who had SS equipment. He used an equalizer to get the sound he wanted. It was very pleasant, but not like live music. Perhaps it transported him to the venue, but it didn't do that for me.
Making things sound similar when they were not similar to start with is homogenisation. For example, making things sound tinny.
Are you saying the exaggerated richness of an SET is also homogenisation?
If yes, FWIW that isn't a fault of tubes so much as its a fault of the topology.
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