Do we hear differently?

[Gregadd]

The problem of course is what if you made the groupd aware of it's bias and gave the tets again?

Nor does it appear that a control was had. Give the exact test over again to see if anyyone chagned thier mind. Frequently different results are changed when a test is repeated.
If I have already expressed an opinion or have no opinion, do I strain to to hear a difference or ignore a difference I hear? If I am indifferent do I just pick one.

 

[Ron Party]

...And that means fidelity to early gen 15 ips tapes.

I could easily live with that! Just think about all that great late 60's and 70's progressive rock that sounds like, well ... you know.

 

[jkeny]

I could easily live with that! Just think about all that great late 60's and 70's progressive rock that sounds like, well ... you know.

Yea, let's bring back ELP - Pictures at an Exhibition

 

[Gregadd]

This is Martin logans recomended setyup. Not sure it works in mono.

 

[Ron Party]

That'll work! Let's bring back the Genesis catalog, from The Knife to The Lamb. Or some Procol Harum. Myles, in your travels, have you heard any of this kind of music on tape?

 

[NorthStar]

Led Zeppelin? :b

* ELP, I luv it too.

 

[JasonI]

So, jasonL, the MatrixhiFi site's stated objective is to debunk esoteric gear! Can you show me a "blind" test done by them where they did find a difference between components? This would demonstrate a number of things!

Can you show me a blind test done by anyone that could find a difference between CD players, amps, or cables? I haven't been able to find one.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I could easily live with that! Just think about all that great late 60's and 70's progressive rock that sounds like, well ... you know.

Actually Ron you might be surprised how good those rock recordings actually sound (including the Beatles!). The record labels re-Eq'd these recordings to death for the actual release; in fact, there's no resemblance between the tape and the record say in the case of The Band's Stage Fright or even Yes Fragile (and we're talking about the George Piros mastered LP here as a reference). But the point is that the master tape, at least in the case of analog, is what the reference really is.

 

[MylesBAstor]

That'll work! Let's bring back the Genesis catalog, from The Knife to The Lamb. Or some Procol Harum. Myles, in your travels, have you heard any of this kind of music on tape?

Give me time

 

[Ron Party]

I have that George Piros mastered LP.

 

[jkeny]

Can you show me a blind test done by anyone that could find a difference between CD players, amps, or cables? I haven't been able to find one.

Jason, you posted a link to a site with a blind test that provided a null result. As part of any evaluation of information on the internet, one looks at motivation behind the site. In this case they plainly state it - to debunk esoteric equipment. This could lead one to conclude that maybe their test isn't unbiased but I asked for further examples which might prove that they actually are less biased than they state. I presume you would link to such tests if they existed?

Answering my request for further information about a link you posted with a request for links from me is not really progressing anything!

In the absence of further information, we will no doubt form our opinions about this test.

 

[JasonI]

Jason, you posted a link to a site with a blind test that provided a null result. As part of any evaluation of information on the internet, one looks at motivation behind the site. In this case they plainly state it - to debunk esoteric equipment. This could lead one to conclude that maybe their test isn't unbiased but I asked for further examples which might prove that they actually are less biased than they state. I presume you would link to such tests if they existed?

Answering my request for further information about a link you posted with a request for links from me is not really progressing anything!

In the absence of further information, we will no doubt form our opinions about this test.

I have little doubt our opinions are formed, regardless. The problem, I think, is that whatever tests are performed and whatever the outcomes are, there will always be a criticism or refutation ready and waiting. Perhaps there is a threshold for scientific rigor beyond which there can be no doubt, but I haven't seen a test which passes muster. There is a considerable amount of data, anecdotal and otherwise, that exposes a potential truth about the business of audiophilia. There are value driven products and there are exclusive products and under certain conditions they are indistinguishable.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Yea, let's bring back ELP - Pictures at an Exhibition

Yes!

That'll work! Let's bring back the Genesis catalog, from The Knife to The Lamb. Or some Procol Harum. Myles, in your travels, have you heard any of this kind of music on tape?

Yes!

Led Zeppelin? :b

* ELP, I luv it too.

Yes!

 

[jkeny]

jkeny-based on the sheer number of posts you have written since you recently joined this forum, is that an indication that business is not booming?

It's fun being a MOT on this forum - it's always interesting the type of interest that is taken in one's business, by whom & when these comments are posted

Thanks for the concern

 

[rbbert]

Can you show me a blind test done by anyone that could find a difference between CD players, amps, or cables? I haven't been able to find one.

Well, over the last few issues of TAS there has been a series of articles purporting to show that there are differences between FLAC and WAV files (even after the FLACs have been converted back to WAVs, with progressive degradation upon each conversion), between various CD burning and ripping programs, even when the resulting files contain identical data, between a $20 Samsung CDR drive and a PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport (with the Samsung being preferred). and between a 16/44.1 WAV in its native format vs. being converted to 24/192 (the latter was preferred). All of these tests were said to be single-blind (for the listeners under test).

 

[rbbert]

So perhaps blind tests are best at finding differences where they don't exist, and not so good at finding differences that do exist?

 

[jkeny]

Anecdotal story of blind test from a well known manufacturer not testing any of his products

I did another test, in which I told the participants we would test mains cable sound differences. The group was very small four plus me, so statistical significance is low, we may treat this as "anecdotal evidence".

Most had no particular opinion on this, all cables where cheap to make DIY Mains cables and should they prove effective, anyone could build their own. One participant was a EE with BBC background very vocal cable sceptic. I professed openly, that I had not listened either and I had no idea if there was a difference or not, but would like to find out.

What I really did was to reverse the polarity of one speaker in the stereo set. Everyone heard the diferences correctly 10/10, except out "cable sceptic" WHO SCORED RANDOM! Due to the small N no real significance, but one may assert that in this case expectation bias was sufficient to mask something as gross as wiring one speaker out of polarity.

 

[amirm]

This is Martin logans recomended setyup. Not sure it works in mono.

How so? And what doesn't it work in mono? What if I have sound in just one speaker? I will sound bad then?

 

[amirm]

Can you show me a blind test done by anyone that could find a difference between CD players, amps, or cables? I haven't been able to find one.

There is a Swedish audiophile society which performs an interesting differential test to compare amps to their inputs blind. In almost all cases, they find differences with the amp coloring the sound. See this post about it: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?p=18024#post18024

While I have not read their reports regarding CD players, I have heard that they have found differences there too.

 

[jkeny]

Amir,
Just followed your link & the link to the Bryston amp review is broken - here's one that now works http://www.4audio.rs/upload/File/Bryston/Bryston review 49.pdf
Compelling stuff indeed!
I don't know the Swedish forum link would you have it handy?