Do you really trust your ears?

[microstrip]

(...) My engineer friend told me the, "Highs are the hardest thing to get right." When you get them right, your system should not shy away from the more piercing instruments.

Curious hobby.

I have read elsewhere "Middle frequencies are the hardest thing to get right, when you get them right, your system will always sound good". Other people say " Bass is the hardest thing to get right - but do not think you have a decent system if you do not have excellent low bass. Your engineer says "Highs are the hardest thing to get right."

To conclude : bass, middle and high are hard to get right - which is the easy one ?

 

[NorthStar]

Our Ears!

I've read this thread and all the comments by members.

Of course I trust my ears (what else in this Audio hobby...), but it is only to the degree of my own personal listening experience.
There are a lot of gear and loudspeakers I never listened too...

This thread is about our home audio system setup, and not Live music!
So one should not be mixed with the other other than just for comparison in the goal to approximate what Live is!

I agree with what people said regarding Live; we are far from it in our own home setup!

So, there is no magic recipe here; it all varies with each person. ...And if we want to be more accurate in our own audio experience we have to test different gear and loudspeakers...
And of course some people are closer to that accuracy than others...

This is a subject, like so many others on not only Audio, but also on other matters of life that is a constant moving target and varies widely from what people know and don't!

We live in an illusion, a prefabricated world with man-made rules and laws! Laws of physic, protection, philosophy and psychology (psychoacoustic).
The only truth is LIVE! And Live certainly ain't perfect! ...And illusion is part of reality!

Simply put; we aim for the best illusion! The most convincing illusion, most realistic one!
And in our Audio (Musical) hobby, our ears are our biggest assets, and we have no choice but to trust them!

 

[mep]

Just to summarize - I do not consider that reproducing a set of drums at life like sound levels as an objective of sound reproduction. Others will think differently.

Why do you single out drums over any other instrument? Ideally, you would want to be able to reproduce all instruments as life like as possible-at least I do. I'm not going to leave one off the list.

 

[hifitommy]

well, i have not read ALL the posts, perhaps if i had been in on it since the first i would have. i trust my ears but also those of reviewers, friends, and dealers whom i have learned to trust. listening to live music is a big plus of course, and training your ears to know what should happen sonically. patience and the will to learn are a must. snap decisions won't cut it and long term listening will reward you with better decisions.

in home audition is the best but not always possible. then you must be careful in selection, whatever the component but especially speakers.

 

[garylkoh]

To conclude : bass, middle and high are hard to get right - which is the easy one ?

None of them - each one has its own unique challenge. Different designers solve each one in their own unique ways - and when that designer think that he has succeeded in that area, then to him that one is the hardest to get right, and he's the only one on the planet who has got it right.

Those of us who utterly fail in getting any one area "right" has to fall back on "my designs are balanced"....

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,
After reading your comment I would like to add some words.

In my case, the objective of high-end audio is not emulating the exact life sound in my room. Most of the time I do not want to have exactly the same sound pressure as in a live event - but I want to have as many as possible positive clues of a live event that allow me to perceive it as a live event. Better still - to get a similar pleasure I got from a life event, added to fact that I am listening in my system at my room.

The ideal sound level for reproducing a recording depends in some part on the way the engineers recorded it, on the equipment and the listening room acoustics, but also on listener preference.

Reproducing a set of drums is enjoyable for some people and is a nice challenge for a show demonstration or a test. I own and enjoy the Bill Elgart recordings by Mark Levinson, as well as the Shefield direct cut LP Drum record and the Burmester drum track of test CD III . My current speakers (Sound lab A1 Pxs) do not have the bass and dynamic capabilities of a pair of Wilson Maxx's I have hosted for a few months, but I consider they are more life like in the reproduction of the recordings I listen 95% of the time.

Just to summarize - I do not consider that reproducing a set of drums at life like sound levels as an objective of sound reproduction. Others will think differently.

I agree, Micro. While I think reproducing a drum kit at full volume can be a goal of sound reproduction, it's not mine. I usually listen a pretty moderate volume levels, even when I have the house all to myself. My goals are a deeper, more detailed view into the recording, open, uncluttered clarity, and the kind of pinpoint imaging that is almost visual in its presentation of the soundscape. None of which usually exists in a live performance unless it is very simple, unamplified, and in a very small quiet room. I know what that sounds like from being a musician playing in people's living rooms, but open up your local entertainment paper and try to find it this Saturday night. It's not out there. But what I'm looking for is right there on my hard drive and I can get at it quite well using a system that is pretty similar to what was used to record the music on that drive in the first place. It's not for everybody, but it works for me.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

None of them - each one has its own unique challenge. Different designers solve each one in their own unique ways - and when that designer think that he has succeeded in that area, then to him that one is the hardest to get right, and he's the only one on the planet who has got it right.

Those of us who utterly fail in getting any one area "right" has to fall back on "my designs are balanced"....

If I had to choose one to get right, I'd choose the middle, where voices, horns, strings, reeds, most of the percussion and all but just a bit of even the bass lies. If I have to choose one to leave behind, it is deep bass. Don't get me wrong, I like bass just fine. But I'm still searching for the perfect little sub for my little room (I think it might be the REL T5...), and in the meantime, I'm sorry bass heads, but I really don't miss it that much.

Tim

 

[mep]

But I'm still searching for the perfect little sub for my little room (I think it might be the REL T5...), and in the meantime, I'm sorry bass heads, but I really don't miss it that much.

Tim

I'm not sure what a bass head is other than the one that sits on top of the speakers owned by a bass player, but I for one would not be happy with a pair of speakers that went down to 60 Hz and I had to imagine the rest.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I'm not sure what a bass head is other than the one that sits on top of the speakers owned by a bass player, but I for one would not be happy with a pair of speakers that went down to 60 Hz and I had to imagine the rest.

It wasn't meant as a disparaging term, Mark. Perhaps a good definition would be one who would not be happy with a pair of speakers that went down to 60hz. But we all have to imagine something. That's my current need for suspension of disbelief.

Tim

 

[muralman1]

Curious hobby.

I have read elsewhere "Middle frequencies are the hardest thing to get right, when you get them right, your system will always sound good". Other people say " Bass is the hardest thing to get right - but do not think you have a decent system if you do not have excellent low bass. Your engineer says "Highs are the hardest thing to get right."

To conclude : bass, middle and high are hard to get right - which is the easy one ?

You read too much into what I quoted. Class D has often garnered a bad reputation because of all the pack a module into a pretty box and play . Of course mids and bass have to be correct as well. I am not an engineer, but what my system proves, man, my amp builder's perfection of the highs, lows and mids are on the money.

 

[mep]

It wasn't meant as a disparaging term, Mark. Perhaps a good definition would be one who would not be happy with a pair of speakers that went down to 60hz. But we all have to imagine something. That's my current need for suspension of disbelief.

Tim

I guess you need to call me a bass head then. I'm not going to give up 1 1/2 octaves of bass information. There's realism in them thar octaves.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I guess you need to call me a bass head then. I'm not going to give up 1 1/2 octaves of bass information. There's realism in them thar octaves.

There is indeed.

Tim

 

[Lee]

I do trust my ears. I've developed some critical listening skills over time and I can hear some subtle differences. I try not to drink when doing critical listening though.