Do You Still Play Compact Discs?

[LL21]

Hello and good evening to you, Ron.

Question #1 and my answer - I have CD's from since I was knee high to a duck (so to speak) all of the way up to a CD purchased and delivered today (one that I have been waiting on from Japan for a month or two). I have probably a thousand or more on my wall in the main rig room, with many more in the closet. Some of them, you will never hear anywhere else (on ANY medium).

They are going nowhere, except for when I pass from this blue globe. In that case? They will be inherited to my son and no one else. Some of the CD's (SACD's/XRCD's/HDCD's and the like) are limited edition/rare/highly sought after and some are simply unobtainable anymore. To find some of what I have, it would be easier to win the mega million lottery. Even on other formats (if the versions I have are even available on other formats).

Question #2 and my answer - The advantages are described above. That's just one point of why. There are other aspects as well. Sometimes (just sometimes), one does not want to go through the ritual of LP cleaning and everything that is entailed with pure reproductive efforts of a vinyl rig. Sometimes, when the LP portion of the stereo is under construction, in the process of upgrading or the like? Sometimes, it's nice to (while you are working on upgrading/modifying) just put in a CD and listen while you are working.

Every once in a while, even though it may not be as pure as vinyl? One just wants to listen to zero snaps, crackles and pops.....just what one of the the original reason for CD's were about....purity. (Laughable, I know). This is just me though. But that's beside he point. Your question was why I would want to play a CD versus streaming.

So, on to my answer on that....

In my travels, I have heard many a streamer. Many DAC's at all kinds of price ranges and on many different systems. Every single one of the streamers have what I refer to as a "mid-bass" suck out. Do they sound great in the room you are listening in? Some of them/many of them? Yes. Are they comparable to physical media? No. Not in my experience. At all. Is it close? AbsoF'nlutely. (Please excuse my "French")

For many out there, I am full of it. For me? Sorry man, they just don't do it for me....sound wise. There is something missing (always) and I can hear the difference. Price of gear does not seem to make me change my observations.

Just for S&G's.....take the same "audiophile album" that is full range, demanding with respect to frequencies (not some easy audiophile album that is just acoustic). Play that album or song in your listening room. Sounds great, right? Well, it may or may not depending on your rig/setup. Now, take that same album/song and listen to the same thing about 100 feet away in your home.

Does it have the same frequency output? In my experience, there is something missing. There is a "mid-bass" suck out. Something (the very thing that gives music "life" to me is missing.

Now, go back and put that same album/song in with physical media and not your streamer. Listen in your room and enjoy all of the wonderful bliss that it brings. Now go back out 100' away and listen to the change from that position from what you heard before. Sounds a little bit more "full", right? Perhaps a little bit more "complete" in the frequency range.

Well, this is that "mid-bass" suck out I am talking about. I really do not know how else to describe it. I could be WAY off with my description, (Self admitted) but that's about the best way I (personally) can describe it. All I know is that I do not like it and now that I know what it is I am missing? It does not matter where I am or what I have listened too? I hear it on streaming systems versus physical media.

With that said, some streamers have certain attributes that I desire with certain songs/albums/reproductive efforts but we are not doing an apples to apples comparison here. Different animals making different sounds......but I guess that's my point. While streamers may get you "perfect" bit for bit (or whatever the latest audiophile phrase of the week is) reproduction of the original? It simply isn't the same to me.

I can still appreciate it though. I'm not knocking it at all.....and as I type this, I am actually listening to a streamer with a DAC......from 40 feet away. Hardly ever in the sweet spot. To me, it's just a convenient aspect of the rig. One I can appreciate but I am not about covenience. I am about the end result as to what hits my ears.

Question #3 and my answer - Marantz Reference Series SA-7S1, Nerve Audio PC and Transparent Reference RCA IC to my Canary Audio pre.

My apologies for the long winded answer. Please forgive any typos....I wanted to say what was on my mind quickly without distractions.

Tom

Very interesting...my own experience is much more limited than yours, but the beginning of your writing certainly matches my experience and approach.

- We own over 3,000 CDs, many hard to find from France, Germany, Canada, US, UK, Italy, Spain and of course Japan.

- When I first settled into audio (boombox)...cassette tapes rapidly migrated to CDs. At that very early point, I promised myself I would focus all of my investment into ONE medium because I knew that not only would the collection otherwise get split into different mediums (or duplicated/triplicated) but the equipment cost would also either start either doubling/tripling...or if the total expenditure remained the same, then I would also feel like perhaps i was 'diluting' the quality of any one medium. Just a personal approach.

- And so I committed myself to going out and finding the bar none best digital playback I can afford and remain committed to this.

- At the moment, the Zanden 4-box has remained a watershed moment for me in digital playback. Great enough that I have not been inspired to go out of my way to listen to new systems even though I am well aware there are numerous that are truly outstanding. (I am aware of even those like Audiocrack who have 'moved on' to high-res, etc...have sold their DCS...but have elected to keep the Zanden 4-box.)

- Not that I have an opinion these new digital systems are not worth the price or any such thing...simply that I would rather focus on other areas of the system.

- But at some point, after 13+ years, I will look at the Wadax, MSB and Aries Cerat and possibly explore what the hype is in relating to the AN DAC 5th Element. And of course, I always suspect at some point Yamada San would come out with a new SOTA digital system which of course some time this year he is due to release as the rumors go!!!

 

[Al M.]

- When I first settled into audio (boombox)...cassette tapes rapidly migrated to CDs. At that very early point, I promised myself I would focus all of my investment into ONE medium because I knew that not only would the collection otherwise get split into different mediums (or duplicated/triplicated) but the equipment cost would also either start either doubling/tripling...or if the total expenditure remained the same, then I would also feel like perhaps i was 'diluting' the quality of any one medium. Just a personal approach.

That is my personal approach too. I have been belittled for it on this forum, and people have said that you can add pretty good vinyl playback or streaming for relatively little money. Well, that is not true. First, I am not interested in "pretty good", and second that "decent" sound in those extra media (not to speak of really good sound) is still a lot of money that I was happy to spend in other areas of my system, for improving the sound of CD playback to make it the best that I can afford.

Doing this, I am very happy with what I have achieved, and also in hindsight I would not have wanted it any other way.

Of course, other people have their own approaches that make them happy, which is perfectly fine too.

 

[Don C]

That is my personal approach too. I have been belittled for it on this forum, and people have said that you can add pretty good vinyl playback or streaming for relatively little money. Well, that is not true. First, I am not interested in "pretty good", and second that "decent" sound in those extra media (not to speak of really good sound) is still a lot of money that I was happy to spend in other areas of my system, for improving the sound of CD playback to make it the best that I can afford.

Doing this, I am very happy with what I have achieved, and also in hindsight I would not have wanted it any other way.

Of course, other people have their own approaches that make them happy, which is perfectly fine too.

Those that consider CD only as the best, or close to perfect, set the sonic bar too low for my taste.

CD only listeners that never owned great vinyl setups before the 90's and settled into CD is good enough forever, do not know what they are missing with the decades of great LP sonic playback. Too bad for them!

They have little personal experience listening long term, in their own home, to vinyl, SACD or high rez PCM, all of which are considered by most audiophiles as superior to CD.

They can live forever with the screechy sounding, and poor high frequency (hard sounding) reproduction of too many CDs IMO.

 

[thedudeabides]

Those that consider CD only as the best, or close to perfect, set the sonic bar too low for my taste.

CD only listeners that never owned great vinyl setups before the 90's and settled into CD is good enough forever, do not know what they are missing with the decades of great LP sonic playback. Too bad for them!

They have little personal experience listening long term, in their own home, to vinyl, SACD or high rez PCM, all of which are considered by most audiophiles as superior to CD.

They can live forever with the screechy sounding, and poor high frequency (hard sounding) reproduction of too many CDs IMO.

Most audiophiles consider CD's inferior to your other referenced sources. Screachy sounding, poor high frequency reproduction. The sonic bar too low for your taste. Really.

Why do folks who prefer analogue need to be so judgmental and elitist and question ones personal media preference if it doesn't agree with theirs?

Well excuse me and other audiophiles who use CD's as their primary music source and are quite happy with the result. Another myopic, self-serving, the world is flat generalization IMO.

 

[spiritofmusic]

What is sad is not CDphiles being happy w their lot, it's audiophiles too lazy to seek out good, or even excellent, CD replay. And I speak as a vinylphile who absolutely looks fwds to playing silver discs every day.

 

[Al M.]

Those that consider CD only as the best, or close to perfect, set the sonic bar too low for my taste

CD only listeners that never owned great vinyl setups before the 90's and settled into CD is good enough forever, do not know what they are missing with the decades of great LP sonic playback. Too bad for them!

They have little personal experience listening long term, in their own home, to vinyl, SACD or high rez PCM, all of which are considered by most audiophiles as superior to CD.

I have had extensive exposure to high-level vinyl playback in friends' homes. I don't think that I am missing much. I used to, but CD playback, including in my own home, has made incredible advances over the years.

In terms of consistency of quality of playback, especially when it comes to classical and jazz (the CD mastering of rock and pop is often questionable), I actually prefer CD to vinyl. There is stellar vinyl playback, to be sure, but not all vinyl is stellar; there are many mediocre pressings.

They can live forever with the screechy sounding, and poor high frequency (hard sounding) reproduction of too many CDs IMO.

Your CD playback must be quite poor then.

 

[LL21]

The interesting thing is that there was a time when people were pulling away from vinyl in favor of the 'superior digital'...that was something like 30-40 years ago, and vinyl is still here and making a resurgence. But equally if not more interesting is how many reviewers of SOTA redbook digital are discovering/rediscovering that redbook is indeed a great medium...its just taken a frustratingly long time to extract the information off the disc to get it to where it is today and hopefully will extend tomorrow. Roy Gregory, Martin Colloms to name two. AudioNote, Wadax, MSB, DCS, TotalDAC, Lampi, Zanden and the list goes on.

 

[rbbert]

Those that consider CD only as the best, or close to perfect, set the sonic bar too low for my taste.

CD only listeners that never owned great vinyl setups before the 90's and settled into CD is good enough forever, do not know what they are missing with the decades of great LP sonic playback. Too bad for them!

They have little personal experience listening long term, in their own home, to vinyl, SACD or high rez PCM, all of which are considered by most audiophiles as superior to CD.

They can live forever with the screechy sounding, and poor high frequency (hard sounding) reproduction of too many CDs IMO.

I don't know if this is a troll or simply a post from someone with somewhat limited experience and inflexible views? I for one owned an LP setup pretty near SOTA in the mid-80's (LP12, Ittok, Ruby, ARC SP6) and don't miss it.

That certainly doesn't mean that I consider the CD anything close to "perfect", but of course that quality is not present in any of the other media you mention

 

[Mikem53]

I don't know if this is a troll or simply a post from someone with somewhat limited experience and inflexible views? I for one owned an LP setup pretty near SOTA in the mid-80's (LP12, Ittok, Ruby, ARC SP6) and don't miss it.

That certainly doesn't mean that I consider the CD anything close to "perfect", but of course that quality is not present in any of the other media you mention

I think @Don C was just stating that there is more out there in digital than Redbook CD's and some are missing out on Hi-res, SACD formats that can deliver better sound.. I agree... I'm quite satisfied with Redbook when its well recorded.. but Hi-res recordings are better sounding, most of the time..

 

[spiritofmusic]

No, with due respect that's not what he was really saying. He was panning Redbook w all the adjectives one could reasonably have decried first generation CDPs with. In 2021.

 

[ack]

I have had extensive exposure to high-level vinyl playback in friends' homes. I don't think that I am missing much. I used to, but CD playback, including in my own home, has made incredible advances over the years.

Ahem! Wait till you get to compare material like the Janaki Debut on LP vs HDCD in here, Alpha DAC or Yggy2 (which cannot properly decode it). I will just mention again what I've mentioned to you and others a few times - CD is harmonically deprived, no matter how good it sounds lately. But then... there is Pat Kop on Alpha CD...

 

[Mikem53]

Those that consider CD only as the best, or close to perfect, set the sonic bar too low for my taste.

CD only listeners that never owned great vinyl setups before the 90's and settled into CD is good enough forever, do not know what they are missing with the decades of great LP sonic playback. Too bad for them!

They have little personal experience listening long term, in their own home, to vinyl, SACD or high rez PCM, all of which are considered by most audiophiles as superior to CD.

They can live forever with the screechy sounding, and poor high frequency (hard sounding) reproduction of too many CDs IMO.

I was one of those who chose the digital path in the 90's. I certainly did miss out on good vinyl sound for not so good digital playback.. but not because the format was horrible. They just didn't make many good players back then. I had the ARC CD2, Sony SCD1, Philips 1000, Cary 306 SACD players and more. meh at best on redbook. They teased us with SACD but had few offerings and little enthusiasm.
Now my vinyl buddies have digital in addition to their Vinyl rigs, most do.
If it was the 90's again.. I would have kept my vinyl and then had both.
If I had to make the choice today, just digital.

 

[ack]

people have said that you can add pretty good vinyl playback or streaming for relatively little money. Well, that is not true.

Yes, I agree with you.

 

[Mikem53]

No, with due respect that's not what he was really saying. He was panning Redbook w all the adjectives one could reasonably have decried first generation CDPs with. In 2021.

Well then he would be wrong.. I have some great sounding CD's from the 70's .. and some lousy ones, mostly rock. I had a lot of crappy sounding records too! I don't know why you don't hear many say that.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Oh, agreed. That's the rub w favouring prog rock and fusion 68-75 period. Many gems, some real clunkers. The absolute steadiness and all round excellence of my CDP puts my TT to the fire.

 

[Al M.]

I had a lot of crappy sounding records too! I don't know why you don't hear many say that.

That's my observation as well. Audiophiles tend to show off their vinyl gems, but there are many mediocre LP pressings too.

 

[microstrip]

Those that consider CD only as the best, or close to perfect, set the sonic bar too low for my taste.

IMHO such statement only shows a different and very limited perspective of what is stereo sound reproduction. CD is clearly better than vinyl in a few aspects - if people valuate more than anything them they will surely consider it the best. Our view of what is the best is just an expression of preference that can be discussed and that should be respected.

CD only listeners that never owned great vinyl setups before the 90's and settled into CD is good enough forever, do not know what they are missing with the decades of great LP sonic playback. Too bad for them!

They have little personal experience listening long term, in their own home, to vinyl, SACD or high rez PCM, all of which are considered by most audiophiles as superior to CD.

They can live forever with the screechy sounding, and poor high frequency (hard sounding) reproduction of too many CDs IMO.

When listening to my preferred CDs being played in the Wilson Audio WAMM speakers I listened to a sound quality I will never experience in my system using vinyl, tape or HiRez. Such perspective has shown me how volatile are such statements. And insults are never a nice way to discuss anything.

 

[carl13]

I still use my PS Audio PWT, which allows me to play CDs, DVD-As and Reference Recordings HRx discs.

 

[Mikem53]

That's my observation as well. Audiophiles tend to show off their vinyl gems, but there are many mediocre LP pressings too.

At least bad vinyl didn’t make your ears bleed back then.. Badly done digital was more painful than vinyl.. at least they have the snap, crackle an pop to distract them.

 

[LL21]

When listening to my preferred CDs being played in the Wilson Audio WAMM speakers I listened to a sound quality I will never experience in my system using vinyl, tape or HiRez.

Interesting...I really must hear the WAMM and the XVX some day. Meanwhile, did you also manage to listen to vinyl or tape with the WAMMs?