Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams
- Thread starter Steve Williams
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It's difficult to truly describe how amazingly great these NOS Tesla E83 CC tubes are. I couldn't have more that 20 hours at most and my initial impression was how this Tesla was a higher gain tube than the Tele ECC 83 with flat plate that Iv'e been burning in for the past 10 days. The Tele is a wonderful tube and will get rotation through my amp but for now I can't stop listening to the Tesla. As I have stated before this tube was made with Tele technology to be exactly like the fabled Tele 803S which I have had for the past 6 years
Neither the ECC 83 or even the ECC803S plays to the same level as the Tesla which must make it a high gain tube. I also want to correct a mistake I made earlier. I have always called the plate on the ECC 803S a "box plate" but I stand corrected from the tube dealer from whom I bought the Tesla.
Tesla E83CC and Telefunken ECC803S are frame grid designs (not box plates). Frame Grid design originated with the first ECC88/6DJ8/E88CC/6922/E188CC/7308 family. Telefunken applied frame grid to ECC83 spec.
Not only the difference in gain have I noticed but so also how neutral, extremely quiet and "musical" the sound is
What I sense (for now at least) is slightly less warmth with the Tesla than the ECC83
Having said all of this and with the scarcity of these tubes, I bought a second set as back up because for the price this is an audiophile find
Thanks Nick Doshi for the tip
Neither the ECC 83 or even the ECC803S plays to the same level as the Tesla which must make it a high gain tube. I also want to correct a mistake I made earlier. I have always called the plate on the ECC 803S a "box plate" but I stand corrected from the tube dealer from whom I bought the Tesla.
Tesla E83CC and Telefunken ECC803S are frame grid designs (not box plates). Frame Grid design originated with the first ECC88/6DJ8/E88CC/6922/E188CC/7308 family. Telefunken applied frame grid to ECC83 spec.
Not only the difference in gain have I noticed but so also how neutral, extremely quiet and "musical" the sound is
What I sense (for now at least) is slightly less warmth with the Tesla than the ECC83
Having said all of this and with the scarcity of these tubes, I bought a second set as back up because for the price this is an audiophile find
Thanks Nick Doshi for the tip
Congrats, Steve...sounds like quite a nice find. I am looking for Tesla's to fit my 2 6922's in my CJ GAT.
My dealer has only one left. I bought an extra pair as these tubes are nothing short of sensational.
Lloyd,
You can get the Tesla E88CC matched at around GBP 20 each from Germany. They sounded great in a Metronome C2A DAC - so good I had to offer a pair from my collection when I borrowed the Kalista / C2A to listen in my system!
Attachments
Yes. I used it on the Metronome, and compared to the stock Philips 6922/ecc88 it sounded more full bodied and dynamic - something that complemented well the Kalista /c2A in my system Audio Research system. They had low noise.
I will soon listen to them in a cj ART series 3 - 10 tubes in all!
Thanks for the tip Francisco! I will look for Tessa's. enjoy the art3! How does t compare with arc anniverary?
I am simply amazed at how good this tube is and at 20 GBP is a better deal than even what I paid
Francisco did you also find that it is a high gain tube.
Francisco did you also find that it is a high gain tube.
The 6922/e88cc is a high gain tube - my samples had a transconductance of 10500 micromhos. The E88cc is much less used than the E83cc, so demand is much less - market rules!
Ten years ago I could get the Tesla tubes directly from Hungary and Czechoslovakia - I should have built larger and more diverse stocks!
I was amazed that when I switched from the Tele flat plate ECC83 to the E83CC Tesla that the gain at usual levels seemed so much higher
I can not be compared alone - I will only compare the ART/LP275s system with the ARC system.
Steve,
Marty as concluded and I certainly agree that at this point my bass is superior to his (I think substantially in terms of cohesiveness and punch). Based on physics and experience, it is my belief that my bass is better because there is no delay imparted to the ML's in my system as there is to his Pipedreams to get them in phase, which means that my woofers, which are in the same plane as ML's, tend to synergize much better rather than being off by part of a cycle. The net result is much more impact and much tighter low bass. I offer this because you might want to try moving your woofers into the same plane as the Alexandria's to increase the cohesion.
Marty as concluded and I certainly agree that at this point my bass is superior to his (I think substantially in terms of cohesiveness and punch). Based on physics and experience, it is my belief that my bass is better because there is no delay imparted to the ML's in my system as there is to his Pipedreams to get them in phase, which means that my woofers, which are in the same plane as ML's, tend to synergize much better rather than being off by part of a cycle. The net result is much more impact and much tighter low bass. I offer this because you might want to try moving your woofers into the same plane as the Alexandria's to increase the cohesion.
The "time coherence" of separate bass drivers, when coupled with stand-alone mains, is one of the main points made by Barry Ober of JL Audio. In multiple phone conversations, he continually impressed upon me the importance of subwoofer time alignment with the mains. The "null test", where you run the main speaker out-of-phase with the sub while playing a tone at the crossover frequency, can give you a good idea of phase coherence (coincidence along the sine wave), but cannot tell you if you're on the same cycle of wave (in my ape-brain understanding of his points). Therefore, you can be "phase coherent", but not propagate a discrete note at the same time.
This time coherence can be adjusted in preamp/processors with speaker distance settings, but is more tricky in straightforward music playback systems. Speaker/sub positioning apparently can solve much of it, but the group delay of the sub needs to be taken into account per Barry. I hope I've repeated his comments as accurately as possible, and I welcome feedback from the more knowledgeable members here!
Lee
For a few weeks ... The LP275M are very powerful. I also got a full set of Crystal Dreamline cables to try with this sytem. Unfortunately the cj system has been in storage for a few months and will need burn-in.
Well here's the scoop on that Russ......
when Bonnie (my acoustician) did a final site visit last month to measure my RT60 (which BTW is 0.42) I commented to her about those very issues with the subs behind the speakers. She said "no problem" as she has measurements where everything is in the room and their relationship with one another. She plugged all of this data into her mathematical algorithm and told me exactly where to set the "phase" dial on my Fathom subs
I did try to get some closeups of Nick's unit and the NOS Tele 803S's
Hi Steve,
Truly a work of art isn't it. There's so much good info that you have shared. I must find the time to study this wonderful thread. Darn,gold pinned tubes glowing and a RTR,we are truly blessed. Congrats!
Late congrats Steve ! I had been wondering about your new room since you mentioned it in another thread and today found out about this thread.
I find the design of your room is very interesting. Most acousticians I had talked to would suggest minimum absorption / maximum diffusion approach for room this size, and yet, you did something opposite.
Since everyone marvels how good it sounds, I can only assume there are more ways than one to skin the cat.
BTW - did you happen to have the RT-60 curve of your new room ?
I find the design of your room is very interesting. Most acousticians I had talked to would suggest minimum absorption / maximum diffusion approach for room this size, and yet, you did something opposite.
Since everyone marvels how good it sounds, I can only assume there are more ways than one to skin the cat.
BTW - did you happen to have the RT-60 curve of your new room ?
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