Doctor's Orders/The Listening Room And Home Theater Of Steve Williams

[Ron Party]

If I understand correctly, which is a big leap of faith on my part, you have your Lex configured such that it thinks there are zero subs and, in this way, the Lex is routing the LFE info to the mains, then your L & R channels go to the Lamm pre. Is the Lamm pre accepting the signal from the Lex in the same way it accepts any analog input? Stated another way, the Lamm pre is not used in unity gain?

 

[steve williams]

The Lamm pre IS involved in unity gain. Yes the LFE is going through the mains and Lex is configured for no subs

 

[terryj]

Well, why then the worry about the tact messing up your 'pure' midrange??

The tact would ONLY be in the sub signal path, not the midrange path

 

[steve williams]

The TacT gurus here said that not for proper phase and time alignment of the subs to the mains but also for DRC. I have an asymmetric ceiling which is sloped from window wall side of 8 feet to the inside wall which measures 12'

 

[steve williams]

BTW the TacT gurus here (2 of whom have heard my system) who made those comments are my good friend Marty, Amir and audioguy.

 

[terryj]

The TacT gurus here said that not for proper phase and time alignment of the subs to the mains but also for DRC. I have an asymmetric ceiling which is sloped from window wall side of 8 feet to the inside wall which measures 12'

Ok. I guess I was only concentrating on THESE aspects of your posts

Proper time and phase integration of my Gothams with my X-2's

there is no doubt in my mind that they would be better integrated re time delay and phase alignment if I were to use something like TacT

In any case, even tho it would not do anything about the ceiling, it could at least realise those goals.

Just on a side note, bass is a very funny thing. Get IT right, and the entire perceived spectrum improves. I know you guys all know that, get the phase and timing right of the bas and the envelopment, soundstage etc gets gets bigger, yet you have done nothing to the mains signal.

I am presuming from the pics that the sloped ceiling is due to an upstairs balcony or similar, in other words the ceiling cannot be changed. Would it be worth trying PRDs up there?? That would not do too much damage to the view from the balcony, but could do a lot for any problems caused by it. (or absorption?)

Now, a sloped ceiling is something I would be very doubtful that DSP could fix???? DSP is most useful in the bass, I can see that gentle use of it higher in the FR can be a thing to help with 'salting to taste', but you can't really use it to correct for reflections off surfaces???

I use dsp in my system too, but not the tact which is why I am not being definite in my response, but that type of 'problem' I would not have thought amenable to dsp correction. I think, at best (in this case) all it would be is different?

But there ya go, that is an easy thing to test! Sounds like with a little help from your friends you could easily throw it into the path. Ignore the midrange (tho you will of course note it in passing, for all we know it may not be harmed at all) and instead solely concentrate on what it does to fix the ceiling problem, on whether it can fix the ceiling problem. That is where I have my doubts.

Of course that presupposes that you are aware of the sound of the ceiling problem.

If, as I suspect, that is an area out of dsp control, then you are back to those two specific quotes above, which IS under dsp control, and any benefits in those areas can be evaluated as a seperate issue from the midrange one.

Anyway, sounds like you have wandered down this path mentally a few times, and know far more about your own setup than I do, so I'll bow out now as I don't really have much help to offer.

Looks bloomin marvellous tho, well done.

 

[steve williams]

Terry I can't begin to tell you the number of times I have walked down that blooming path. Long and the short however is that for my ears it sounds pretty darn good.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Steverino, your system looks as good as it must sound - marvelous!!!!

 

[DonH50]

A sloped ceiling just makes it a bit more difficult to predict and correct the room modes. DSP can correct for room modes, at least the peaks, by reducing the level at those points. Nulls caused by cancellations are difficult to correct; it is from signals canceling out in the room, and it is virtually impossible to bring up the level enough to fix a null like that. Someone commented it was like trying to fill a black hole, and that is pretty apt.

 

[brianherlihy]

Hi Steve,

i am nearing the end of my construction. as we have discussed before, i too have a sloped roof - only 10" from one side to the other, but i have other room difficulties being in an abnormally shaped room and having it to conform to my 'living room' as well as my listening area (read - need wife's approval).

I will start a post on this separately, but one thing you might find of interest. b/c of the irregularities (2/5 of the room are open to the greater loft - with the other sides being hard brick and/or windows). We therefore focused on getting uniform absorption on both sides (east and west of the room - i will address issues of being over-damped once the room is up and running - as i don't know the answer today). For the sloping ceiling (and in part due to the high damping), we are contemplating building in a set of ceiling diffusers which run parallel to the floor (see picture below). this helps from the diffusion of the sound but also seeks to address my sloped ceiling with a passive solution (my first choice for the same reasons that you are weary of DCR).

Steve, you will see the blue array of rectangles above the couch - these are Auralex ‘Space Array’ panels. i think we have it set for 14 of them that run parallel to the floor to mitigate ceiling slope.

 

[microstrip]

A sloped ceiling just makes it a bit more difficult to predict and correct the room modes.

My understanding is that perhaps a sloped ceiling makes more difficult to correct bass room modes because they do not exist, so they have not to be corrected. Maybe it is why the room does not need DSP bass correction.
More seriously, some modes will still exist, but the problem is easier - it can be reduced to a 2D simulation. As ceiling and floor (the larger areas) are non parallel and the room is large, Steve should have excellent bass.

 

[steve williams]

Let me just say that the bass isn't too shabby

 

[RUR]

Let me just say that the bass isn't too shabby

Far, far from it. Still recovering from Dance On a Volcano.

 

[terryj]

Far, far from it. Still recovering from Dance On a Volcano.

always on the lookout for new music...band name etc, or was it a movie??

 

[RBFC]

always on the lookout for new music...band name etc, or was it a movie??

Genesis: A Trick of the Tail, I believe.

Lee

 

[RUR]

always on the lookout for new music...band name etc, or was it a movie??

Genesis: A Trick of the Tail, I believe.

Lee

In this case, Jordan Rudess' amazing adaptation of the Genesis original.

The Road Home.

 

[DonH50]

Uh, I think calculating and thus predicting room modes is more complicated the more reflecting surfaces you have and the more complex they are. However, correction is no more difficult assuming you have a device that senses the modes and compensates them -- it does not need to know if the boundaries are parallel, anti-parallel, sloped, or whatever -- it just measures the response and corrects it.

I would have to really stretch to analyze and determine why asparagus tastes so bad to me, but correcting it with a plentiful cheese sauce is not so difficult and requires hardly any thought... - Don

 

[Waboman]

Holy moly! Simply awesome, Steve! Don't know where to begin... the Lamms, the Gothams, the Wilsons... I think my heads gonna explode trying to process all this awesomeness. Well done!

 

[flez007]

Speechless!....

 

[rblnr]

Fantastic room Steve, would love to hear your system.

My system is configured similarly in that I have a prepro in front of ARC tubes, and I use two outputs on the REF 5 to send full range signals to both the Scaena towers and woofers. Also have a pair of f113s.

Mine's a smaller and very different room, but I'm going to try my Tact in front of the system, using the digital out into a DAC into the REF 5 and see how that works.