Does Everything Make a Difference?

I love the Hammond B3 with rotating Lesile speakers. It wasn't mine but I had the chance to play one with one of the rock bands I was in. The whole lot is pita to transport, setup and take down. I used to keep track of all the keyboard players.

Hammond
Jimmy Smith - One Mint Julip
Matthew Fisher - Procol Harum - A Whiter Shade of Pale
Felix Cavaliere - The Young Rascals - Good Loving
Mark Stein - Vanilla Fudge - You Keep Me Hanging On
Jon Lord - Deep Purple - Hush
Gregg Allman - The Allman Brothers Band - Midnight Rider
Ray Manzarek - The Doors - LA Woman, but mostly played a Vox
Gregg Role - Santana - Evil Ways
Booker T. Jones
James Brown
... and lots more.

Okay some of those guys played a C3, but still Hammond sound.
My uncle had a B3 when I was way too young to realise just how good it was.

Am a big fan of all the above, especially Jimmy Smith, and also Dr Lonnie Smith and Shirley Scott… such an iconic keyboard rock and jazz instrument.
 
One of the elements that makes herd mentality work is that those folks who are in it don’t see it. Even when it’s pointed out to them


Look at the sections “group polarization” and “suppression of dissent “

Looks to me like text book audiophile tribalism.
I would also add Audiophile Idolatry.

 
One of the elements that makes herd mentality work is that those folks who are in it don’t see it. Even when it’s pointed out to them


Look at the sections “group polarization” and “suppression of dissent “

Looks to me like text book audiophile tribalism.
A herd that probably makes up <10% of audiophiles? Nope, not buying it…
 
We definitely disagree about amps. Most modern SS amps when operating within their true power are audibly transparent.

Tube amps vary but unlike most SS gear they don’t go into hard clipping at a single point in their output. OTLs and SETs are champions at going into audible levels of distortion at levels way below there ::cough:: rated power.
All I can say is that , no they are really not audibly transparent or all sound the same.

Please clearly define what is audible levels of distortion and any attempt to use THD and IMD will be summarily ignored. It has long been known that these metrics don’t correlate with perception.
 
But nobody in the herd or tribe buys it either. So how do you know?
Herd mentality involves the majority…not a fringe minority…now if you want to say we are a niche cult…well I guess that is a way to look at it but this implies religious or faith based overtones. The people I know who have gone down this road are amongst the most experienced audiophiles and live music lovers I know…and have tried virtually everything else.
 
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All I can say is that , no they are really not audibly transparent or all sound the same.
Which is begging the question. Saying it doesn’t make it so.

Please clearly define what is audible levels of distortion and any attempt to use THD and IMD will be summarily ignored. It has long been known that these metrics don’t correlate with perception.
why don’t we just cut to the chase. Audibly transparent amplifiers are easy enough to demonstrate and have been demonstrated many times. All you need are bias controlled level matched listening tests.
 
Herd mentality involves the majority…not a fringe minority…now if you want to say we are a niche cult…well I guess that is a way to look at it but this implies religious or faith based overtones. The people I know who have gone down this road are amongst the most experienced audiophiles and live music lovers I know…and have tried virtually everything else.
Simply not true. Herd mentality is group think. The group can be millions or dozens. It’s the engine that drives cults. Small and big alike.

Experience does not give one status or super powers. An experienced psychic is not more credible than a novice.
 
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Which is begging the question. Saying it doesn’t make it so.


why don’t we just cut to the chase. Audibly transparent amplifiers are easy enough to demonstrate and have been demonstrated many times. All you need are bias controlled level matched listening tests.
And that begs the question as to what are you defining as an audibly transparent amp? Nice in theory doesn’t exist in practice. Your all “competently designed” amps sound the same shtick has been tried for decades. No one here, even the owners of said “audibly transparent “ amps , thinks this is true.
 
Simply not true. Herd mentality is group think. The group can be millions or dozens. It’s the engine that drives cults. Small and big alike.

Experience does not give one status or super powers. An experienced psychic is not more credible than a novice.
Wrong, the definition of a herd is a LARGE group of animals or in slang terms a large group of people not acting independently.


If anything, those who have moved to horn and SET or similar are breaking ranks from the herd of low distortion SS and box cone/dome speakers that has dominated audio for 50 years.
Experience most certainly does give status and while not super powers, typically greater insight into a particular field of thought.
 
Wrong, the definition of a herd is a LARGE group of animals or in slang terms a large group of people not acting independently

from Webster’s online dictionary
“herd mentality

noun


: the tendency of the people in a group to think and behave in ways that conform with others in the group rather than as individuals”

No mention of size of the group or if wild animals. If you disagree with the dictionary that’s between you and Mr. Webster

If anything, those who have moved to horn and SET or similar are breaking ranks from the herd of low distortion SS and box cone/dome speakers that has dominated audio for 50 years.

Who said anything about herd mentality when it comes to fans of SETs or horn speakers? Did I miss something? One can like something without engaging in herd mentality.

Experience most certainly does give status and while not super powers, typically greater insight into a particular field of thought.
Now this is indicative of herd mentality. The notion of status by being a long time member of the herd.

It’s also the first step taken in audio forum pissing contests.

Let’s just shut that down before it is even gets going. I am not impressed by how impressed anyone is with themselves. Even if other members of their tribe are impressed.

Anyone can get on a soapbox and proclaim their expertise. This is why arguments from authority are a dime a dozen.
 
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from Webster’s online dictionary
“herd mentality

noun


: the tendency of the people in a group to think and behave in ways that conform with others in the group rather than as individuals”

No mention of size of the group or if wild animals. If you disagree with the dictionary that’s between you and Mr. Webster



Who said anything about herd mentality when it comes to fans of SETs or horn speakers? Did I miss something? One can like something without engaging in herd mentality.


Now this is indicative of herd mentality. The notion of status by being a long time member of the herd.

It’s also the first step taken in audio forum pissing contests.

Let’s just shut that down before it is even gets going. I am not impressed by how impressed anyone is with themselves. Even if other members of their tribe are impressed.

Anyone can get on a soapbox and proclaim their expertise. This is why arguments from authority are a dime a dozen.

take it up with them…first and true definition is a large group of animals. Herd mentality refers in slang to tge majority just going along with the status quo without critical thinking.
If you weren’t referring to horns/set lovers as a herd then who were you referring to? That’s definitely what Andromeda meant.
 
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And that begs the question as to what are you defining as an audibly transparent amp?
It doesn’t “beg the question” but anyway…you really don’t know what audible transparency is?

ok. Audible transparency is when the input signal is audibly indistinguishable from the out put.

Nice in theory doesn’t exist in practice.
It certainly does. I think there have been a few showdowns with wagers involved. If it weren’t impractical I’d be happy to demonstrate to you in a bias controlled level matched listening test your inability to distinguish a number of different amps on the system of your choice using your choice of source material.

Which would only demonstrate the that you don’t have super powers and have normal human hearing acuity

These tests have been done before. They never end well for the folks who are certain they can hear differences.

all “competently designed” amps sound the same shtick has been tried for decades. No one here, even the owners of said “audibly transparent “ amps , thinks this is true.
An appeal to herd mentality. Kind of ironic.
 

take it up with them…first and true definition is a large group of animals. Herd mentality refers in slang to tge majority just going along with the status quo without critical thinking.
If you weren’t referring to horns/set lovers as a herd then who were you referring to? That’s definitely what Andromeda meant.
You thought we were talking about herds of animals? You do know that these posts are documented for everyone to see right? You do know that the topic was herd mentality not herds of animals right?

What next? An argument over what the definition of the word “is” is?
 
It doesn’t “beg the question” but anyway…you really don’t know what audible transparency is?

ok. Audible transparency is when the input signal is audibly indistinguishable from the out put.


It certainly does. I think there have been a few showdowns with wagers involved. If it weren’t impractical I’d be happy to demonstrate to you in a bias controlled level matched listening test your inability to distinguish a number of different amps on the system of your choice using your choice of source material.

Which would only demonstrate the that you don’t have super powers and have normal human hearing acuity

These tests have been done before. They never end well for the folks who are certain they can hear differences.


An appeal to herd mentality. Kind of ironic.
Your clinging to 1980s Audio orthodoxy is the definition of herd mentality.

As to my appeal, it is across nearly all audiophiles, I just included most of orthodox in that because even they hear it.

i got it you are in the Julian Hirsch “all competently designed amps sound the same camp “.
 
You thought we were talking about herds of animals? You do know that these posts are documented for everyone to see right? You do know that the topic was herd mentality not herds of animals right?

What next? An argument over what the definition of the word “is” is?
Doh! Where do you think the slang herd mentality comes from? You’re not that daft are you? You know about word origins, right? Are humans not animals? Anyway read the other post if you still don’t understand.
 
A
Your clinging to 1980s Audio orthodoxy is the definition of herd mentality.

As to my appeal, it is across nearly all audiophiles, I just included most of orthodox in that because even they hear it.

i got it you are in the Julian Hirsch “all competently designed amps sound the same camp “.
And as I predicted you are trying to turn it into a pissing contest.

Not interested. But if you want to turn it into an actual listening contest, you vs a series of SS amps I’d be happy to wager $10K that you would not be able to reliably distinguish them in a bias controlled, level matched test.

I look forward to reading your excuses for not taking my $10K. Such easy money

If it’s not enough we can up the stakes.
 
Your
A

And as I predicted you are trying to turn it into a pissing contest.

Not interested. But if you want to turn it into an actual listening contest, you vs a series of SS amps I’d be happy to wager $10K that you would not be able to reliably distinguish them in a bias controlled, level matched test.

I look forward to reading your excuses for not taking my $10K. Such easy money

If it’s not enough we can up the r
No pissing here just noting from what era your position derives.

Ha! You will come to Switzerland then with all those amps? You are qualified to set up a fair test? Doubtful at best.

BTW. I notice there was no further comment on the herd mentality…finally concede your definition was flawed? Also, who or what were you claiming was herd mentality? You never clarified…guess you meant horn/SET in error, or?
 

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