Does Magico have a "house sound", and if so, how would you describe it?

[cannata]

Shakti,
I fully agree with you. I have heard Magico of all the different series (with the exception of the original M series). I respect and admire their commitment to new technologies (wood, aluminium, carbon, mix) but the outcome fails to impress me and it changes with each generation in a way I do not see with brands I prefer. There is however an area where they made an interesting contribution, namely by using sealed boxes. There is a certain definition in their reproduction of lower frequencies which i like and seems linked to the use of that design.

You seem to ignore what we, the people who own Magico products, are trying to say; the Magico will sound more like what's driving them, and less like what they might actually sound (assuming everything has a sound). You can go back and look at all measured data on Magico loudspeakers, they are all reasonably smooth and balanced both on and off-axis, with extreme low THD (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140).

It is not the house sound that is changing (it just gets better); it's the systems used to drive them (Ask Caesar who flipped 180° when heard the S5 on the CAT).

Most speakers suggested here as "role models" are so colored, their sound signature will triumph any ancillary equipment driving them. Therefore you have a similar "house sound" no matter what.

 

[BlueFox]

Can't say if Magico has a house sound, but I can say I love my speakers. I listen to them with a low sound level, and with a high sound level, and love both levels. Plus they look great when idle. That is one area Magico needs to fix with the M series. Just black is boring.

 

[Rhapsody]

Suprising, but even more interesting! BTW, do you know of anyone having tried AES/EBU from the Extreme to Devialet?

Nope have not heard of AES/EBU from the Extreme to the Devialet's. I agree it is interesting. I have sold two pairs of M2s and one pair of M3 with Devialet either 440 or 1000's. It's not for WBF type listenings probably but non-audiophiles who have amazing residences and love the look/functionality of the Devialet and then hear it with the Magico love the combination. There is something very satisfying about the combination. No, it's not the end to all ends, it's just very aesthetically pleasing and sounds very good.

 

[Mdp632]

Nope have not heard of AES/EBU from the Extreme to the Devialet's. I agree it is interesting. I have sold two pairs of M2s and one pair of M3 with Devialet either 440 or 1000's. It's not for WBF type listenings probably but non-audiophiles who have amazing residences and love the look/functionality of the Devialet and then hear it with the Magico love the combination. There is something very satisfying about the combination. No, it's not the end to all ends, it's just very aesthetically pleasing and sounds very good.

Devialet is a very low distortion and neutral amplifier. So, the combo with Magico might be too much of a good thing for some (Not me) that like a more distorted and warmed up sound.

But, the subjectivity of our hobby is what makes it great.

The transducer (Magico) is only giving you what is behind it. For better or worse.

@Rhapsody Have you ever tried any of the SAM profiles with Magico speakers?

 

[Rhapsody]

Devialet is a very low distortion and neutral amplifier. So, the combo with Magico might be too much of a good thing for some (Not me) that like a more distorted and warmed up sound.

But, the subjectivity of our hobby is what makes it great.

The transducer (Magico) is only giving you what is behind it. For better or worse.

@Rhapsody Have you ever tried any of the SAM profiles with Magico speakers?

Hi,

Nope, they have always sounded fie without the SAM, unless there is a room issue, the less processing the better for me. But I'm sure it can sound great for others!

 

[Al M.]

Until I hear a Magico with electronics that I consider to be top notch I will reserve judgement as to where that lack of a bit of realism has gone missing. It is a very easy thing to destroy...but I suspect that this brands overall highly damped concept is leading to a lack of dynamic jump that hurts microdynamics...but that is not confirmed.

Magico can do both micro and macro dynamics well. Just recently I heard a totally explosive trumpet sound from Dizzie Gillespie on the M Project. It really depends on electronics. But it also depends very much on precise speaker positioning; as also Microstrip pointed out, Magico speakers are critical of placement. Moving by inches can make a marked difference in incisiveness and dynamics of sound. This is quite different from my own Reference 3A speakers which improve as you dial in placement, but where basic characteristics of liveliness, dynamics and tonality are more or less evident wherever you simply drop them in the room.

The critical need for precise placement of Magico speakers may also be a major reason why the chances of hearing good Magico sound at a show are quite low.

 

[Alrainbow]

You seem to ignore what we, the people who own Magico products, are trying to say; the Magico will sound more like what's driving them, and less like what they might actually sound (assuming everything has a sound). You can go back and look at all measured data on Magico loudspeakers, they are all reasonably smooth and balanced both on and off-axis, with extreme low THD (https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140).

It is not the house sound that is changing (it just gets better); it's the systems used to drive them (Ask Caesar who flipped 180° when heard the S5 on the CAT).

Most speakers suggested here as "role models" are so colored, their sound signature will triumph any ancillary equipment driving them. Therefore you have a similar "house sound" no matter what.

Magico can do both micro and macro dynamics well. Just recently I heard a totally explosive trumpet sound from Dizzie Gillespie on the M Project. It really depends on electronics. But it also depends very much on precise speaker positioning; as also Microstrip pointed out, Magico speakers are critical of placement. Moving by inches can make a marked difference in incisiveness and dynamics of sound. This is quite different from my own Reference 3A speakers which improve as you dial in placement, but where basic characteristics of liveliness, dynamics and tonality are more or less evident wherever you simply drop them in the room.

The critical need for precise placement of Magico speakers may also be a major reason why the chances of hearing good Magico sound at a show are quite low.

I dont buy this , any good speaker will produce “good “ sound placed within reasonable settings , critical placement is for pulling out that last 20% IMO .

There is no way show after show of bad sound is down to critical inches of placement , no reasonable person would expect to hear best of best from any product at an audio show , bad sound is inexcusable at these prices from professionals and factory reps , they should know their product better than anyone ..!

Sorry ....

 

[tima]

Stepping back, the way I read this thread is Magico changes the technology and sonics of their speakers regularly. Some characterize the change from one line to another as drastic. I gather there is more consistency of sonics within a given line or model set. Whether you like a Magico sound may depend on when you heard them. Some characterize the regular change as purposeful and evolving though it is unclear if the evolution has a direction and thus difficult to assess there is 'a house sound.'

It seems that criticism is often met with 'the need to have the appropriate amplification'. It's not clear there is agreement on appropriate amplification across the various lines.

All of this makes me wonder if the manufacturer is very purposeful but doesn't know quite what he wants. Or more kindly, he is still in the process of clarifying his vision. Or perhaps the manufacturer is saying 'well, I did that, what can I do next', on the other hand I wonder if perhaps continual change is the core of the Magico business model.

None of this is a comment on any of the Magico sonics.

 

[Al M.]

I dont buy this , any good speaker will produce “good “ sound placed within reasonable settings , critical placement is for pulling out that last 20% IMO .

There is no way show after show of bad sound is down to critical inches of placement , no reasonable person would expect to hear best of best from any product at an audio show , bad sound is inexcusable at these prices from professionals and factory reps , they should know their product better than anyone ..!

Sorry ....

Well, you may not buy it, but I have the long-term experience with the brand that I have. Unfortunately, I cannot transplant my experiences into your mind. All I can suggest is to keep it open for good Magico sound that you may hear one day.

***

As for bad sound at shows, this is not specific to Magico either. I have heard other famous brands sound mediocre to outright bad at shows. Do I judge bad sound from shows? No, there are too many possible reasons for that, bad electricity not the least of them. If the sound of a system at a show is good, that counts, if it's bad, it doesn't.

 

[morricab]

Stepping back, the way I read this thread is Magico changes the technology and sonics of their speakers regularly. Some characterize the change from one line to another as drastic. I gather there is more consistency of sonics within a given line or model set. Whether you like a Magico sound may depend on when you heard them. Some characterize the regular change as purposeful and evolving though it is unclear if the evolution has a direction and thus difficult to assess there is 'a house sound.'

It seems that criticism is often met with 'the need to have the appropriate amplification'. It's not clear there is agreement on appropriate amplification across the various lines.

All of this makes me wonder if the manufacturer is very purposeful but doesn't know quite what he wants. Or more kindly, he is still in the process of clarifying his vision. Or perhaps the manufacturer is saying 'well, I did that, what can I do next', on the other hand I wonder if perhaps continual change is the core of the Magico business model.

None of this is a comment on any of the Magico sonics.

I have heard a couple models from every version except the A series and the old V series.

 

[morricab]

Well, you may not buy it, but I have the long-term experience with the brand that I have. Unfortunately, I cannot transplant my experiences into your mind. All I can suggest is to keep it open for good Magico sound that you may hear one day.

***

As for bad sound at shows, this is not specific to Magico either. I have heard other famous brands sound mediocre to outright bad at shows. Do I judge bad sound from shows? No, there are too many possible reasons for that, bad electricity not the least of them. If the sound of a system at a show is good, that counts, if it's bad, it doesn't.

At least somewhat true and therefore I give the benefit of the doubt at least once...but multiple times in multiple systems suggests something systematic. I really take note when year after year there is disappointment. Mostly I am impressed with the few true successes I hear at shows...that perks my interest.

I heard disasters at dealers showrooms with this brand as well...from a dealer whom I had been impressed with in the past with his ability to get good sound. He switched from better sounding gear to better known gear to stay in business perhaps?

It takes an impressive marketing machine to overcome repeated bad show performance as that is how most get exposure to this kind of exotic gear.

 

[Al M.]

At least somewhat true and therefore I give the benefit of the doubt at least once...but multiple times in multiple systems suggests something systematic. I really take note when year after year there is disappointment. Mostly I am impressed with the few true successes I hear at shows...that perks my interest.

True successes at shows are indeed hard to find. I am not interested in "good" sound, but rather something that can at least compete with my own system to some extent, and perhaps even better it, at least in some aspects. That is a true success in my book. Good luck with that at a show. In home settings among fellow audiophiles who know what they're doing, more easily found.

 

[defride]

I dont buy this , any good speaker will produce “good “ sound placed within reasonable settings , critical placement is for pulling out that last 20% IMO .

There is no way show after show of bad sound is down to critical inches of placement , no reasonable person would expect to hear best of best from any product at an audio show , bad sound is inexcusable at these prices from professionals and factory reps , they should know their product better than anyone ..!

Sorry ....

Rather depends on your definition of good.

I don't have Magico but my Kharma are make or break for me based on as little as 1 cm toe in. Get the placement thereabouts and they do sound okay, maybe fine for some but for me they don't engage until they're just so. My wife wouldn't care but she'd be thinking about something else while the music played

I can fully believe that Magico and many other speakers are as critical of placement for some

 

[PeterA]

The placement of speakers is a fascinating topic. Some are clearly more susceptible to proper placement than others. I have found that toe-in effects tonal balance and the ratio of reflections vs. direct sound. Front to back and side to side seems more about hitting or avoiding room nodes and is about smother frequency response.

With the Magico brand, the sealed cabinet is an advantage as far as front wall interaction is concerned, but I wonder if different models behave differently because of their size and shape.

We have some pretty general statements being made about how critical the placement of Magico speakers is. Are the models with rounded tops, sides, front, and back more or less susceptible to placement relative to the Q or A series with their flat tops and sides? I think this may make a difference in terms of how much the speaker disappears, but I don't really know.

My point is, beside the fact that all the Magico speakers have cones in sealed boxes, is each different model really just as susceptible to placement as the others? I would think that if a particular brand is quite susceptible to placement that it would say something about a lack of coloration that might otherwise obscure or hide such small changes in speaker position.

I would be curious to know what speaker designers think about this topic.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

True successes at shows are indeed hard to find. I am not interested in "good" sound, but rather something that can at least compete with my own system to some extent, and perhaps even better it, at least in some aspects. That is a true success in my book. Good luck with that at a show. In home settings among fellow audiophiles who know what they're doing, more easily found.

i've really enjoyed MSB Select II <-> Magico pairings at shows mostly; in a 'show' sort of way. so i'm not nit-picking like i would in my own room, or maybe one i'd been in a dozen times where the owner is asking me to tell him whether i like his changes, but i could get into the music and not think about gear so much and enjoy it. stayed for extended time. maybe i'm listening 'through and around' the Magico to the MSB? i don't know. maybe the Select II has the refinement to bring out the 'nice' side of the Magico presentation?

we are talking enjoyment, not critical judgement. and many times larger scale rooms at shows either work or not. and who can say why exactly unless you were involved in the setting up.

 

[ack]

I would be curious to know what speaker designers think about this topic.

Each speaker manufacturer worth his/her salt measures and knows their speakers' dispersion patterns, and recommend in their manuals optimal positioning, including toe-in. Magico speakers' dispersion patterns do not seem to support zero toe-in, and they are not alone. This is contrary to horns, for example, which by large should support that. The lack of support for zero toe-in in your set-up was quite apparent to me when I last visited you - totally unnatural and weird sound.

 

[PeterA]

Each speaker manufacturer worth his/her salt measures and knows their speakers' dispersion patterns, and recommend in their manuals optimal positioning, including toe-in. Magico speakers' dispersion patterns do not seem to support zero toe-in, and they are not alone. This is contrary to horns, for example, which by large should support that. The lack of support for zero toe-in in your set-up was quite apparent to me when I last visited you - totally unnatural and weird sound.

Certainly people are free to have differing opinions.

 

[cannata]

Well, you may not buy it, but I have the long-term experience with the brand that I have. Unfortunately, I cannot transplant my experiences into your mind. All I can suggest is to keep it open for good Magico sound that you may hear one day.

You are trying to convince people whose idea of good sound is a flapping cardbox with a megaphone in the center. It does not matter how Magico performs or sounds; they just listen to what they are used to or like, and if they don't hear it, its bad.
Probably the most successful hi-end loudspeaker company of the 21st did not get there by having "disastrous" showing. If you like Magico (or willing to keep an open mind), you will find their showing decent to spectacular (M2/M6 in Munich). Like any precision tool, they will benefit from careful setup, but that's not going to change the minds who think that a 60 year old Tannoy is where sound reproduction progress stooped.

 

[Alrainbow]

Rather depends on your definition of good.

I don't have Magico but my Kharma are make or break for me based on as little as 1 cm toe in. Get the placement thereabouts and they do sound okay, maybe fine for some but for me they don't engage until they're just so. My wife wouldn't care but she'd be thinking about something else while the music played

I can fully believe that Magico and many other speakers are as critical of placement for some

To be clear im not directing bad show sound at only Magico , many have this issue at shows .

As to your Speakers, you are discussing the last 20% for placement , this i stated and agree with , that last 20% is the work and most of us will only claw another 5-10% as i doubt any audiophile gets past 90% of potential , with cables ,acoustics , electronics , setups etc ..

IOW , the basics sound has to show potential in order to work for that last 20% , if a certain speaker sound is only getting you 50% there whats the incentive to think you are gonna pick up the next 40% playing around when the “pro’s” missed so bad ..?

Ideology..?
Marketing ..?
You like the finish..?

Personally I’m a 3 times fail guy , if after 3 different attempts and time spent , any audio product fails to get into that potential window I’m not interested , even if out of the blue it sounds fantastic on one occasion , my Motives would run along the lines of how difficult and could i get it or invest enough time to get it to work ..


Difficult choice if in basic form its way off the mark going in ...!

 

[Alrainbow]

You are trying to convince people whose idea of good sound is a flapping cardbox with a megaphone in the center. It does not matter how Magico performs or sounds; they just listen to what they are used to or like, and if they don't hear it, its bad.
Probably the most successful hi-end loudspeaker company of the 21st did not get there by having "disastrous" showing. If you like Magico (or willing to keep an open mind), you will find their showing decent to spectacular (M2/M6 in Munich). Like any precision tool, they will benefit from careful setup, but that's not going to change the minds who think that a 60 year old Tannoy is where sound reproduction progress stooped.

Hahaha cardboard box flopping with a megaphone in the middle ..

That’s a sad Tragico situation ...!