Don’t Meet Your Heroes!

[Bretson]

Hi All,

Just wanted to share my experience recently. I went to a very nice Hifi shop and was treated royally to a listening session to multiple systems.

I had always been excited to hear Wilson speakers and dagostino but it is not available too many places. I finally had the chance this week and it was a total disappointment. No bass, no midrange, no body. My TAD CR1 stomp a mud hole in the alexx v. So too do my dynaudio confidence 30.

The top system consisted of Alexx V, full dagostino, MSB cascade, stromtank , full transparent loom.

I’ve honestly had better sound from a Naim MUSO. I was so excited to get in the seat and let the sound wash over me and as soon as it started it just sounded broken.

I went to the next room which was Mac and SF and i was absolutely floored at the sq. Full Mac setup with Hifi rose streamer and a set of the new amatis. It was Absolutley night and day. Not a taste thing either. The dealer said the Mac system was coloured. I said he was right. It was like viewing a colour portrait vs one that was monochrome.

I have speant a lot of money buying so much of this so called high end but I am going back to Mac. It gave me the fizz that nearly 1 mil of gear could not.

I’m curious about others who have met their Hifi heroes and been let down horribly. The dealer conceded with the sound deficit and said he was hoping for people who are unaware to simply buy the system upon seeing it. This happens all the time here as well btw.

There were Sabrina’s in another room and they stunk too. Personally I will not be owning a pair of Wilson’s but I realize many seem to like them. It was a rough outing for them here though.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I dont think its the speakers .
If they put the MAC on the wilsons you might very well like them .
Put VTL ARC CAT on Wilsons and you get a different vibe ,

The Culprit is the one who declared ' D agostino " as somehow " Neutral" amplification.
Probably some magazine no no came up with that nonsense..



That said MAC / SF - Wilson /DAG is about as wide of an opposite in audio as you can get

 

[Bretson]

I Hope you’re right. You had to hear this though. It was pathetic.

 

[Bretson]

This was the far better system. The room was smaller and they weren’t even placed properly but it’s hard to deny when something just works. All the subjectivity in the world needs to stand aside to pure excellence at some point.

Anyways, this isn’t to crap on one brand or the other but it is kind of a value statement. If you are a well heeled but not super rich audiophile, do not despair. You can have it all for far less than “the best”.

 

[exupgh12]

The only time I truly enjoyed the Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX was at the HiFi de Luxe Marriott 2024 event, paired with Ubiq Audio electronics. This experience was enlightening, especially after the numerous disappointments I had encountered while listening to the Chronosonic XVX over the past few years.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I heard the same system at the Marriott last year , i thought it was nothing special / ordinary sound .

I always like the CH room in Munich , good vibe , well set up .
Thats where i heard the XVX at its " best " , sounded ok but nothing special.( unrealistic soundstage )
It even needed a sub iirc in that small room lol.

 

[Ted Denney III]

It is a cable and set up issue. The speakers are world class as are the electronics. However improperly integrated with the wrong cables, footers and other things, all bets are off.

 

[andromedaaudio]

It is a cable and set up issue. The speakers are world class as are the electronics. However improperly integrated with the wrong cables, footers and other things, all bets are off.

Nonsense Ted you re sending people into the costly Cable Maze, at WBF we help people .

Besides ....Predictable , i wouldnt have expected anything else from you .

 

[Ron Resnick]

was a total disappointment. No bass, no midrange, no body. My TAD CR1 stomp a mud hole in the alexx v. So too do my dynaudio confidence 30.

The top system consisted of Alexx V, full dagostino, MSB cascade, stromtank , full transparent loom.

I do not understand this report at all. And I have a lot of ear time on Alexx Vs.

The dealer conceded with the sound deficit and said he was hoping for people who are unaware to simply buy the system upon seeing it.

I have a lot of trouble believing that any dealer would exhibit a system about which he/she feels this way.

 

[bonzo75]

I do not understand this report at all. And I have a lot of ear time on Alexx Vs.


I have a lot of trouble believing that any dealer would exhibit a system about which he/she feels this way.

Report did not surprise me at all

 

[exupgh12]

I heard the same system at the Marriott last year , i thought it was nothing special / ordinary sound .

I always like the CH room in Munich , good vibe , well set up .
Thats where i heard the XVX at its " best " , sounded ok but nothing special.( unrealistic soundstage )
It even needed a sub iirc in that small room lol.

I heard the CH + XVX setup on both the first and second days, and frankly, it didn’t come close to how the XVX performed on the last day at the Marriott.
It’s not the first Munich show I’m not impressed with the CH room, not in 2022, not in 2023, and not in 2024.

For couple of years, Nagra also demonstrated with the Wilson XVX, but their setups have consistently fallen short of what the speaker is truly capable of, even below the CH room.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It is a cable and set up issue. The speakers are world class as are the electronics. However improperly integrated with the wrong cables, footers and other things, all bets are off.

In a subjective hobby (as I say almost constantly), absent some undisclosed conflict of interest, I have to accept Bretson's report. But it makes no sense to me, either.

A few weeks ago at Brian Berdan's, in Carlsbad, CA, pk_LA and I heard XVX/D'Agostino/Transparent -- a system very similar to what Bretson is reporting on. "No bass, no midrange, no body" is the opposite of how I would describe what we both heard. pk_LA himself, until very recently, had Alexx V with Transparent.

I agree that Alexx V and D'Agostino are world class products (even if not exactly my personal cup of tea).

Buy I do not see why cables could account for Bretson's report, as Wilson + Transparent is an extremely common pairing.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Report did not surprise me at all

Is "Bretson" you second screen name?

 

[bonzo75]

Is "Bretson" you second screen name?

No it’s Caesar

 

[andromedaaudio]

For couple of years, Nagra also demonstrated with the Wilson XVX, but their setups have consistently fallen short of what the speaker is truly capable of, even below the CH room.

Now that i 100 % agree with, what a dreadfull / underpowered / sluggish presentation
.
But also with the stenheims in 2024 the Nagra room sound was a abomination , may be the room dimensions have something to do with it as well, dont know .

2022 CH / RP lyra was by far the best the CH room sounded ( M10 /L10 every year)

 

[Ted Denney III]

In a subjective hobby (as I say almost constantly), absent some undisclosed conflict of interest, I have to accept Bretson's report. But it makes no sense to me, either.

A few weeks ago at Brian Berdan's, in Carlsbad, CA, pk_LA and I heard XVX/D'Agostino/Transparent -- a system very similar to what Bretson is reporting on. "No bass, no midrange, no body" is the opposite of how I would describe what we both heard. pk_LA himself, until very recently, had Alexx V with Transparent.

I agree that Alexx V and D'Agostino are world class products (even if not exactly my personal cup of tea).

Buy I do not see why cables could account for Bretson's report, as Wilson + Transparent is an extremely common pairing.

I would have to read his report which I have not done, but if there’s a lack of leading edge, or dynamic impact, yes, I would definitely say it has something to do with the cables. In fact, if I could get to and Cable that system and make a video, I would make a very dramatic point of it.

 

[Kingrex]

I accept what Bretson experienced as his perception between Dag/Wilson and Mac/Sonus. I don't believe him when he says the dealer admitted Dag/Wil was deficit and only sold based upon uneducated listeners buying the system based upon looks. Not unless he thought Bretson was so close to buying the Mac/Sonus he was doing the normal salesman crap talk everything and upsell what he thinks the customer will purchase.

Mcintosh and Sonus do have a sound. I have heard it many times. it's very predictable. It does not sound live. The bass is heavy and lacks detail. It's like a warm fleece blanket. Its seductive and easy to absorb and be carried away. Does not offend. It's a nice sound. No one can fault someone for liking it. I like it. I had some of it for a short time. I actually miss a lot about it. My wife likes it a lot more than what I have now.

I'm sure someone could change the sound with cables and color it up any way you like. You just need an honest salesman that will tell you what cable voice what way. Dave at Zenwave is pretty upfront about what is neutral, what is fast, what is warm.
Dag/Wilson has a sound. It's not for me. I run every time I hear it. I would rather have a Mac/Sounus system if I had to pick between the two. But ultimately, I would pick something totally different. And even though cables change the sound. They don't change the underlying system. A cable will never rescue a system that is built upon equipment that voices in a way to don't like. If anything, the correct cables will make the system sound less appealing. A cable should never "Fix" anyting. It should only get out of the way and be as invisible as possible. Unless you want a really "colored" cable to shape the sound.

 

[craigr]

I have heard the Wilsons XVX driven by DAG and by Boulder with the best of cables, room acoustics etc. They can sound very articulate, and the bass can literally vibrate your body. But, for CLASSICAL music, they are analytical, cold, clinical . Every detail is present, but the MUSIC is not.

SF speakers , by design, emphasize tonal quality, the character of the instruments. Their reference line is named after famous violins or their creators. Whereas Wilson brags that his cabinets contribute "nothing" to the sound, ie are totally silent, SF boasts of the wood and how that, like with a violin, enhances the harmonics and natural sound. Very different goals and hence end results. The SF reference line can provide outstanding articulation, sound stage and yes the sense of being at the venue, but to accomplish this does require careful selection of upstream components.

Personally, I find the Mac preamp and amps too warm, too "thick". I could understand a listener having the response that the SG + MAC does not provide the detail or bass of the Wilsons.

BUT, attach a SF Il Cremonese to a VAC Master preamp (tubes) + NAD 861 (solid state) amp with the proper cabling (eg Shunyata Sigma or Omega) and you will enjoy outstanding bass (yes, it can even provide vibrations), marked articulation that is NOT clinical and a truly live performance with the tonal character of each instrument preserved (if not emphasized).

Would I say the same for rock, heavy metal music? NO!! I do not believe SF were designed for these genres. Sure, you can play this genre through the SF but as they say, it will not "rock you." In contrast, the Wilsons + DAG (or Boulder) will provide all the blast and metal you can endure.

I wouldn't want to race my Subaru Outback on a track, and frankly, I wouldn't want a Ferrari in downtown traffic at rush hour.

PS:
I cannot emphasize enough the important of all cables, line conditioning and even room acoustics.

 

[microstrip]

Just to point that in my opinion we are in the very possible cases of someone disliking the Wilson Audio sound or poor dealer setup - that curiously remains anonymous.

In my experience the Allex V is a speaker that is not easy to position and setup. Because of its height and high content of medium treble information it can easily sound unbalanced. I listened to it versus XLF and the XLF was much less critical to sound great. But properly positioned in an adequate system it sounds the opposite of what the OP described. But surely it was completely different from the Sonus Faber Aida.

People looking for constructive opinions on the Allex-V can look for several threads of the several Alexx V owners in WBF.

 

[morricab]

Just to point that in my opinion we are in the very possible cases of someone disliking the Wilson Audio sound or poor dealer setup - that curiously remains anonymous.

In my experience the Allex V is a speaker that is not easy to position and setup. Because of its height and high content of medium treble information it can easily sound unbalanced. I listened to it versus XLF and the XLF was much less critical to sound great. But properly positioned in an adequate system it sounds the opposite of what the OP described. But surely it was completely different from the Sonus Faber Aida.

People looking for constructive opinions on the Allex-V can look for several threads of the several Alexx V owners in WBF.

It’s simply a rather poor design, which makes a number of amateur mistakes… true of Wilson speakers pretty much from the beginning of the company. This is why Wilson’s are notoriously difficult to setup to sound ok. And yes, I have heard them sound pretty good a few times, but never amazing and often poor. The one thing they do pretty well is control of cabinet resonance.