DSD512 May Fest in Munich 2016

[beaur]

I posted my thoughts in another message but I think it was lost in the noise.

Listening to an unfamiliar system is always a bit tricky but my impressions of the system while not the wow of some was generally positive. It helps that the room was large and the speakers were pretty good! I am a believer that larger rooms are generally better and this was a very large room.

First thing I noticed, and I have heard in past demos was that when the first track was played (Redbook to DSD512) the soundstage was distorted in space. Didn't seem to affect the music but positioning was off from what I expected. My general sense from past sessions with other upsamplers is that the harder the equipment is working it tends to do wierd things to the soundstage. Maybe it was the track itself but the effect was not repeated in later demos.

The second issue is that the sound was to me in some ways too good. I spoke with Edward after and compared it to HD video. Sometines what I see is too good. I am looking for a little cinema coloration and when it's presented as HD there's a sense of being overwhelmed. It's not a bad thing, at least for me but it's noticeable. I wouldn't describe it as lifeless but I can understand how someone could feel that way.

If you like the full force of the music to take over this is in your sweet spot. I myself like a little less of everything and I totally get how the system can be customized for that which makes it one of the more flexible available.

As I said at the event if I have the $$ I would definitely have this on my audition list to test out it's full capabilities.


Thanks again to the Sound Galleries team for inviting the WBF contingent to what I thought was going to be a small meet and greet and turned into a really fun night.

Beau

 

[EuroDriver]

Where may I ask is this DSD material available sampled at 512? Are there any music sites with downloads available? Highest rate I have seen is DSD256.

We have upsampled DSD 64, DSD 128 and DSD 256 to DSD 512 using HQ Player. As far as we know there are no original DSD 512 recordings. At DSD 512 the files sizes are pretty humongous.

Sometimes we get better results upsampling DSD 64 to DSD 512 than from the same recording available in DSD 256. Sometimes the DSD 256 upsamples to DSD 512 better than the DSD 64 upsamples to DSD 512. We believe it depends on the quality of the processing done during the original recording or how good the resampling algorithm used was.

We feel that there is a sweat spot for DSD sampling frequency for recordings given todays SOTA recording electronics and there is a different sweet spot for sampling frequency for play back. In the case of the T+A DAC 8 DSD, the playback sweet spot is very definitely DSD 512.

My guess is that the sweet spot for the sample rate for recording might well be DSD 128. The ultra sonic noise is pretty far away from the audio band, and the file sizes are still manageable. HQ Player has no problem to upsample from DSD 128 to DSD 512, that's the flexibility HQ Player delivers

 

[EuroDriver]

I posted my thoughts in another message but I think it was lost in the noise.

Listening to an unfamiliar system is always a bit tricky but my impressions of the system while not the wow of some was generally positive. It helps that the room was large and the speakers were pretty good! I am a believer that larger rooms are generally better and this was a very large room.

First thing I noticed, and I have heard in past demos was that when the first track was played (Redbook to DSD512) the soundstage was distorted in space. Didn't seem to affect the music but positioning was off from what I expected. My general sense from past sessions with other upsamplers is that the harder the equipment is working it tends to do wierd things to the soundstage. Maybe it was the track itself but the effect was not repeated in later demos.

The second issue is that the sound was to me in some ways too good. I spoke with Edward after and compared it to HD video. Sometines what I see is too good. I am looking for a little cinema coloration and when it's presented as HD there's a sense of being overwhelmed. It's not a bad thing, at least for me but it's noticeable. I wouldn't describe it as lifeless but I can understand how someone could feel that way.

If you like the full force of the music to take over this is in your sweet spot. I myself like a little less of everything and I totally get how the system can be customized for that which makes it one of the more flexible available.

As I said at the event if I have the $$ I would definitely have this on my audition list to test out it's full capabilities.


Thanks again to the Sound Galleries team for inviting the WBF contingent to what I thought was going to be a small meet and greet and turned into a really fun night.

Beau

Hi Beau,

Thank you for spending the time with us. There is such a wide spectrum of audiophiles, and we really appreciate the additional data points that audiophiles with the experience and perspective such as yours gives us. Of course we can not please every one, but the understanding about how you listen and enjoy music is great information for us.

The overload of information feeling was something we detected quite often with SABRE DAC's at DSD 256. However when we got to test the T+A DAC 8 DSD for the first time, one of the big take always was this previous feeling of detail overload was replaced by a smoothness, fluidity, purity and stress free listening

 

[nc42acc]

Excellent response, thank you for this information. Something definitely to try.

We have upsampled DSD 64, DSD 128 and DSD 256 to DSD 512 using HQ Player. As far as we know there are no original DSD 512 recordings. At DSD 512 the files sizes are pretty humongous.

Sometimes we get better results upsampling DSD 64 to DSD 512 than from the same recording available in DSD 256. Sometimes the DSD 256 upsamples to DSD 512 better than the DSD 64 upsamples to DSD 512. We believe it depends on the quality of the processing done during the original recording or how good the resampling algorithm used was.

We feel that there is a sweat spot for DSD sampling frequency for recordings given todays SOTA recording electronics and there is a different sweet spot for sampling frequency for play back. In the case of the T+A DAC 8 DSD, the playback sweet spot is very definitely DSD 512.

My guess is that the sweet spot for the sample rate for recording might well be DSD 128. The ultra sonic noise is pretty far away from the audio band, and the file sizes are still manageable. HQ Player has no problem to upsample from DSD 128 to DSD 512, that's the flexibility HQ Player delivers

 

[Elberoth]

I think that the general problem with presentations this big (I believe there were like 50 ppl in the room) is that not everyone has same listening conditions. One sits in the 1st row and another I the 4th row, one sits in the center, and then there are ppl sitting far off axis.

From my 20 years experience visiting different shows, your overall impression of the system sound often depends on where you sit, especially if that is one of those very crowded demos with a few dosens of ppl in the room.

The highest compliment for me came from ?ukasz Fikus from Lampizator, who was sitting next to me and said after the demo that that he could live with sound like this at home.

Chris Connaker from Computer Audiophile also started installing Roon / HQ Player combo on his computer after coming back from Munich for a reason ...

IMO the Sound Galleries server may be one of the best music servers available today, even more so if your DAC can take advantage of DSD upsampling.

 

[bonzo75]

Since I was in Monaco anyway, I had the opportunity to visit Sound Galleries and get a private audition of the Sound Galleries Music Server and had time enough to chat with Geoffrey Armstrong... Geoffrey assured me that when a customer purchases said server, he would work with the customer to make sure that the sound was to his liking.

I visited Geoffrey last year to listen to the Trios with bass horns (in normal 6ish by 4.5ism meter living room conditions) and totally second that. By the time I left I was totally surprised by how non-selling he was, total gentleman, yet extremely knowledgeable regarding both gear and music. He never said a word to me while my auditions were on only later did I realize he knew the classical pieces and recordings I was playing.

 

[microstrip]

(...) IMO the Sound Galleries server may be one of the best music servers available today, even more so if your DAC can take advantage of DSD upsampling.

Adam,
Are you considering trying it with the Trinity DAC?

 

[bonzo75]

Adam,
Are you considering trying it with the Trinity DAC?

Adam has the Lampi GG DSD

 

[Elberoth]

Adam,
Are you considering trying it with the Trinity DAC?

I would love to, but it is out of my price range.

 

[garylkoh]

Thanks Gary for those first impressions and photos.

I enjoy following your travels both here and on Facebook as you entrench everyone in the culture of where ever you are. All this plus great recipes as well. Kudos my friend

Thanks, Steve. I try to bring some sunshine wherever I go

I visited Geoffrey last year to listen to the Trios with bass horns (in normal 6ish by 4.5ism meter living room conditions) and totally second that. By the time I left I was totally surprised by how non-selling he was, total gentleman, yet extremely knowledgeable regarding both gear and music. He never said a word to me while my auditions were on only later did I realize he knew the classical pieces and recordings I was playing.

Absolutely. Geoffrey is the consummate gentleman. If you're anywhere near Monaco, Sound Galleries should be a great option to purchase from.