I would buy a used Pass XP-22.
If that were beyond reach you could go next down in the Pass line, or whichever you could afford. But I would probably stay with Pass.
First Watt SIT 5
- Thread starter Axel C
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If that were beyond reach you could go next down in the Pass line, or whichever you could afford. But I would probably stay with Pass.
LTA pre’s work very well with FW SITs. Natural partners.
You get extreme transparency with just enough 12SN7 flavor and a very reasonable price.
You get extreme transparency with just enough 12SN7 flavor and a very reasonable price.
Thank you. I’ve read that first watt amps need gain from the pre. I’ll look to see the level of gain for the LTAs.
This would be my suggestion BUT I would double check with Nelson Pass first. He is very approachable.
This would be my suggestion BUT I would double check with Nelson Pass first. He is very approachable.
Ouch! $20k pre-amp for a First Watt
Never said it was a problem, it was a reaction to its price. We are allowed to have reactions, no?
Now to explain why I reacted in that manner, my personal approach is keep components somewhat proportional to each other in terms of price bucket. Granted the SIT-5 is said to be close to $10k, however for the other First Watt amps which are significantly less.
For further clarity, I view the pre-amp as the heart of the whole system given it will manage various source inputs and amplifier outputs. In that vein I would spend more on the pre-amp than perhaps a few other components in the chain.
Gain looks good, but I’m wondering about the impedance loadThis would be my suggestion BUT I would double check with Nelson Pass first. He is very approachable.
I have a SIT3 and use an LTA MZ3 for a preamp. The SIT3 has only 11db of gain and with that pre I have all the gain I could ever ask for. The SIT4 and 5 have 19-20db of gain.
BTW Nelson is or at least was a fan of passive preamps.
The SITs are supremely transparent. Get the best upstream kit you can afford.
Great advice. Thank you. I’ve heard that about Nelson too. Two votes for LTA. The Pass pres aren’t passive but they are lower gain, 6 db or so.
The output impedance of the CSPort Pre Amp @ 50 Ohms is ideal being 20 times lower than the input impedance of the Sit 5 @ 100K Ohms.
"Generally, you want the output impedance of your preamp to be 10 or more times lower than the input impedance of your amplifier to ensure that your line level signal is distortion and corruption free to maximise the voltage transfer."
The First Watt amps inspired Jeff Day to say that we are living in the golden age of solid state amplification. Comparable to the 1920s being the golden age of tube amps. He said this because of the purity and tonality of these minimalist designs. I’ve never pulled the cover off of my SIT 3 but from photos I’ve counted 17 parts per side in the signal path of the amp. I think it’s worthy of any level of upstream electronics to include the $86000 Solution 757 DS Audio compatible as well as conventional phonostage/linestage. The FirstWatt amps are second to none among SS amps for their intended speaker loads. Compare them to the EM/IA silver wound type 50 and that is a different conversation.Ouch! $20k pre-amp for a First Watt
I agree. The SIT 4 manages to be both truthful and beautiful on my set up. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Type 50. I have a Komuro 300b and am amazed at what it does.
Good morning SensitiveMonk,
I’ve actually never heard a type 50 amp. I had a 2A3. I miss it. I know the 50 is, along with the 45 considered as pure as it gets.
I think the SITs probably occupy the same territory. Both Herb Reichart and Srajan wrote that the SIT4 is their all time favorite amp on certain speakers.
I’ve actually never heard a type 50 amp. I had a 2A3. I miss it. I know the 50 is, along with the 45 considered as pure as it gets.
I think the SITs probably occupy the same territory. Both Herb Reichart and Srajan wrote that the SIT4 is their all time favorite amp on certain speakers.
First Watt SIT 3, LTA MZ3 as preamp, Sutherland 20-20 phonostage. Soundsmith Paua cartridge.
Do you use this preamp?
As a happy and satisfied J2 owner, I never questioned the greatness of First Watt amps nor the simplicity of their design. Which as you well know is the premise of Papa Pass’s design philosophy.
Oh Jeeez no. My wife would shoot me on the spot. My system is in the video above. I use an MZ3 as a preamp. I just wanted to point out that imho you could go to any level of pre or front end and it would not be inappropriate. I called Pass customer service one day and asked them about their opinion of putting XS in front of a SIT3. He said absolutely for the XS Phono, but he thought the XP32 would be preferable to the XS pre which is designed to couple with the XS amps.
Hi there. I've had the XP22, 32, and XS with Pass XA60.8, FW J2, F8, SIT-3/4/5. In short, while the XP22 is terrific, the 32 is significantly better. More detail and info coming through - immediately noticeable. And while I wanted to believe it wouldn't/couldn't be the case, the XS is the same jump again. Better in every way - no comparison.
Interesting. The SIT 5 uses the Tokin device as a current amplifier. I guess the JFET front end provides the voltage gain. It also 'borrows' the 20 percent current from the big honking MOSFET. Don't know if that would make it some kind of hybrid.
The DIY project I built at about 10 watts class A with the Pass circuit/Sony 2SK60 VFET single ended also operates as a current amplifier, but borrows 40 percent current from the satellite Mosfet to lower nominal impedance. I paired it with Pass DIY FE 2022 front end (about 20db gain) that uses a single class A BJT transistor with a swarm of little JFETs in some kind of cascode or voltage regulation arrangement.
I didn't know what to expect because it's the only amplifier I ever built, but it is amongst my favorites. It sounds like 2A3 but with intensity, lustre and attack to boot with a bit of that 45 rawness and subtlety. Huge imaging, precise holography and 3D depth. Oddly enough, running a panel at about 87 db efficiency full range and no crossover with the little amp provides a surprisingly robust performance at a satisfying volume level, although I usually use it with the 75 inch ribbons from 300 to 7Khz frequency range. The sound when used full range crossover-less on the panel seems to be as 'pure' as seems possible, but also beguiling as a flea tube type.
If the SIT 5 is a superman version of this kind of sound and that kind of power output and low output impedance, it must be quite something in sound quality.
My SK60 project has been operational now for over two years.
The DIY project I built at about 10 watts class A with the Pass circuit/Sony 2SK60 VFET single ended also operates as a current amplifier, but borrows 40 percent current from the satellite Mosfet to lower nominal impedance. I paired it with Pass DIY FE 2022 front end (about 20db gain) that uses a single class A BJT transistor with a swarm of little JFETs in some kind of cascode or voltage regulation arrangement.
I didn't know what to expect because it's the only amplifier I ever built, but it is amongst my favorites. It sounds like 2A3 but with intensity, lustre and attack to boot with a bit of that 45 rawness and subtlety. Huge imaging, precise holography and 3D depth. Oddly enough, running a panel at about 87 db efficiency full range and no crossover with the little amp provides a surprisingly robust performance at a satisfying volume level, although I usually use it with the 75 inch ribbons from 300 to 7Khz frequency range. The sound when used full range crossover-less on the panel seems to be as 'pure' as seems possible, but also beguiling as a flea tube type.
If the SIT 5 is a superman version of this kind of sound and that kind of power output and low output impedance, it must be quite something in sound quality.
My SK60 project has been operational now for over two years.
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