FM Acoustics 268 preamp - the debate around its Linearizer

[FrantzM]

FMA is like Bugatti Veyron - last forever and is very fast.

You could listen to FMA pre and 115 with Venture speakers at RMAF.

Sorry Wizard ..

The Veyron is objectively superior to anything out there, I don't know much about its reliability. It can be measured to go faster than most any car... In what way are the FMA products, objectively? similarly superior? If it is in your opinion or for your taste, I am OK with that and you wouild find a mountain-laod of audiophiles who prefer diffeent vastly less expensive amplifers ..

In objective terms are the FMA as extended as Spectral preamps? the amps as powerful as the monster Boulder 3050 (1500 W/ch at 8 ohms doubling down)? or the krell MRA or the Pass or the Bryston 28B? As for their reliability I can't tell much but I know several High End brands who have stood the test of time in term of reliability in that FMA is not unique. Bryston goes as far as guaranteeing their products for 20 years ..Does FMA?

 

[LL21]

Hearing for myself is the only thing that convinces me definitively.

In the meantime, what peaks my curiosity...is that i have not heard of any FMA owners 'upgrading' to another brand. I have seen a number of systems with FM in them...and it seems that over time i have seen them rotate other equipment...but not the FM stuff. Some systems have had FM for years...10+ years. I honestly have not really studied this as i am very happy with my own electronics...that said, if i were going to be tempted to 'move up' to this extreme...i would definitely wish to investigate FMA.

 

[mep]

The sentiments expressed by Christian and Frantz are the reason why I called FM a cult. Everything about this company pegs my BS meter.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

FMA is like Bugatti Veyron - last forever and is very fast.

You could listen to FMA pre and 115 with Venture speakers at RMAF.

i've heard FM Acoustics on maybe a dozen occasions over the years. it's always competent, maybe even very good, but never has really grabbed me (except their 222 Phono stage once back in the day). i've found no reason to criticize it or to aspire to own it.

i own plenty of Swiss gear (2 big Studers, darTZeel, and just sold 2 Nagra's) and fully appreciate the quality of build and likely long lasting performance. but i don't get the FM Acoustics mystique. it's very ordinary looking which i suppose is part of the culture. like a hair shirt. maybe it proves you bought it for the right reasons.

looks like i'll be at RMAF so i'll drop in and see if it can get my attention this time.

 

[A.wayne]

Sorry Wizard ..

The Veyron is objectively superior to anything out there, I don't know much about its reliability. It can be measured to go faster than most any car... In what way are the FMA products, objectively? similarly superior? If it is in your opinion or for your taste, I am OK with that and you wouild find a mountain-laod of audiophiles who prefer diffeent vastly less expensive amplifers ..

In objective terms are the FMA as extended as Spectral preamps? the amps as powerful as the monster Boulder 3050 (1500 W/ch at 8 ohms doubling down)? or the krell MRA or the Pass or the Bryston 28B? As for their reliability I can't tell much but I know several High End brands who have stood the test of time in term of reliability in that FMA is not unique. Bryston goes as far as guaranteeing their products for 20 years ..Does FMA?

Because they know you wont be listening to it that long ...

I have heard FMA stuff, I have met Manny Huber on a few occasions, he is a friend of a friend who does not have FMA products , because he has his own custom built amplfiers. The problem with where this is going is the old fox and the grapes adage, no different than those who argue that people who buy little spectral amps for thousands or Krells for even more thousands are members of some kind of cult , because their Adcoms or Parasounds are better deals ..


But the sound !!! so what .. who cares, it's not a car, nor a race, both where objective values can be applied, its sound , all subjective and for the well heeled who can afford FMA, who cares if you think Spectral is better, its what they like , so phoooey ....


I have met many in this business, Manny is a scholar and a gentleman , not many are and no i dont have FMA gear and no aspirations to own one, but neither do i feel the need to crap all over it .


Yes , sounds like sour grapes to me ..... a cult ... LOL ... !!!

 

[asiufy]

A. Wayne,

I don't think that's it. I could afford FMA gear. I'm actually very interested in their phono stage. But I also smell a lot of BS in their products. I'm not bothered by the price, but by the way their products are sold (you have to be invited in, looks like a cult to me!), and the lack of proper scrutiny... Those thin sheet metal casings wouldn't go unnoticed in any review...


alexandre

 

[A.wayne]

Hello Alexandre,

I'm with you on that, i dont agree nor like such behavior and its not exclusive to FMA nor do i believe it's all done by FMA, I know Manny is a bit long in age and maybe cant be bothered with pumping out 500 units to make a living instead focusing on those willing to come to his table, i dont know , i have not spoken to nor run into him in about a decade and his stuff has always looked run of the mill , always, these new ones are the best yet in build quality and looks IMO, regardless, there were always those who wanted his stuff, always had to have them and they were always expensive..


Best way to hear this kind of stuff is at the shows , let them know you are interested and want a closed listening session , get intimate with the setup and then make arragements to move forward if your interested ..

regards,

 

[rockitman]

A. Wayne,

I don't think that's it. I could afford FMA gear. I'm actually very interested in their phono stage. But I also smell a lot of BS in their products. I'm not bothered by the price, but by the way their products are sold (you have to be invited in, looks like a cult to me!), and the lack of proper scrutiny...Those thin sheet metal casings wouldn't go unnoticed in any review...


alexandre

Read my mind Alexandre !

 

[mep]

Yes , sounds like sour grapes to me ..... a cult ... LOL ... !!!

If you are going to build and price gear at the upper stratosphere of sanity, it better look and sound the part. I'm just shining a light on the fact that the build quality of their sheet metal is more reminiscent of 1960s Dynaco gear than let's say Boulder or Ayre. The quality of their work inside the chassis is nothing to inspire confidence or pride of ownership either. Take a close look at those pictures that Wizard posted of the guts. Wire stand-offs that are glued to the chassis bottom plate that never quite made it to the first place they landed leaving behind glue ghosts. Solder work that looks like it was performed by someone who held a solder iron for the first time and had no idea what they were doing. If that adds to their mystique and sounds like sour grapes, so be it. You can say that the Emperor with no clothes is wearing an Armani suit and I can say I can see his unit swinging in the breeze.

 

[A.wayne]

Mep,

A few questions, do you believe this argument could be made about Krell and others, do you believe spectral owners are part of a cult ..? and who determines where the upper stratosphere begins....end ?

Look at an DMA360 , are you kidding me , what 900 total in parts , weak output stage, heatsink by budget, what is this thing worth, who determine what it's worth, easy to use your argument and consider those purchasing part of a cult.

Ever bought a morgan, first time i saw one and realized it was made from wood , guess what ...

 

[mep]

I absolutely believe you could pick any brand of audio gear and call their devotees members of the brand’s cult. It’s just that FM is a rich man’s cult, and yet their gear is built with pedestrian parts that everyman could afford. FM is selling exclusivity based on deep pockets and psycho babble marketing for people who like exclusivity, have deep pockets, and mistake psycho babble marketing for genius.

I would rather say that people become devotees of a particular brand based on value, sound quality, quality of workmanship, and resale value. Some gear when you take one look at it, you realize why it is priced where it is. When you look at FM gear, you wonder how in the hell they can price their gear they way they do and keep a straight face. Maybe the sound of FM gear is so seductive that people are willing to look past the obvious warts so they can join the cult.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

THis is the inside of a SPectral DMC-20

 

[LL21]

the other company with super-loyal fans is Shindo. More often with shindo than other brands, i go back yrs later and see the same shindo guy has not changed his system. And i have heard their stuff...i could see myself enjoying their stuff and never bother looking at equipment again. Maybe its the same with FMA? maybe they just got a sound that is satisfying and those pay for it...just end up liking it and keeping it.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I'll drop the debate from there ..Not worth much in term of learning. I was expecting to learn what is special about the "linearizer" . Including their ways of addressing scratches on LP .. the same fuzz that permeates anything and everything about the brand ... Out but lurking

 

[microstrip]

You have a point - USA magazines do not publish reviews of FMA gear and there they do not seem to be open to scrutiny. But as far as I remember they have had many reviews along decades in very good french, german, hong-kong, japanese and swiss audio magazines that have high standards of reviewing. And yes, most of them are not written in english and are not freely accessible.

My only contact with the brand was more than twenty years ago when a friend become distributor for some short time. I do not have experience enough with FMA to have a valid opinion, the only piece I have tried was the 222 phono, that had exceptional performance but was very pricey.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I would rather say that people become devotees of a particular brand based on value, sound quality, quality of workmanship, and resale value. Some gear when you take one look at it, you realize why it is priced where it is. When you look at FM gear, you wonder how in the hell they can price their gear they way they do and keep a straight face. Maybe the sound of FM gear is so seductive that people are willing to look past the obvious warts so they can join the cult.

Just to tell you that in Europe FMA gear is known for sound quality, high quality of workmanship and high resale value - it keeps its value much better and longer than similar expensive gear. Value is difficult parameter to quantify, but if you consider that most FMA users keep their gear for long years - I know people of who are keeping it for decades - and do not loose money exchanging equipment, I would risk it is good value. Their main problem for me, besides the high buying price: they do not have a remote control for volume.

 

[LL21]

You have a point - USA magazines do not publish reviews of FMA gear and there they do not seem to be open to scrutiny. But as far as I remember they have had many reviews along decades in very good french, german, hong-kong, japanese and swiss audio magazines that have high standards of reviewing. And yes, most of them are not written in english and are not freely accessible.

My only contact with the brand was more than twenty years ago when a friend become distributor for some short time. I do not have experience enough with FMA to have a valid opinion, the only piece I have tried was the 222 phono, that had exceptional performance but was very pricey.

The Hong Kong & Singapore crowd really really seems to like FMA...particularly their preamps it seems. I have seen a number of 268 preamps in systems...a few with the amps, but more preamps it seems (to me).

 

[A.wayne]

I tried finding if any of the Spectral amplifiers were ever tested and could not find one in stereophile (i'm not picking on spectral owners or their equipment just pointing out how easy it is to poke holes into this kind of argument) Personally looking at their mono bloc amplfiers and its 4 pr output stage, small heat sink, i really do find it difficult to believe their printed specs , or this amp's ability to sustained such high current .

So can we say this is over priced, not worth it , because it does not pass my parts count test and for me, wont work in any of my setups, as i dont believe them capable of handling the load and current requirements , which means absolutely nothing to the person who enjoys it and is satisfied enuff to keep coming back.

For the record i have heard Spectral amplfiers and thought them to be good sounding amplfiers , offering top level performance when Pr with the appropriate speakers...

 

[mep]

Uh, what speakers do you need in order for them to be "appropiate" for Spectral amps??

 

[asiufy]

I remember a glowing review of the Spectral stuff (pre, power and CD player) in TAS, including interviews with the founders/engineers, etc. They even gave an excuse for the reason their gear don't get many reviews, which is lack of production scale. Their stuff is (was) backlogged about 6 months back then... That's understandable, and we even see it happening again today, with Evolution Acoustics, for instance.

Spectral is not NEARLY as "mythical" (in the unicorn in fantasyland kind of way) as Goldmund and specially FMA.


alexandre