Friday night listening

the sound of Tao

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I do not have any first hand experience with the Type 50 tubes. I find the Type 45 tubes to be the best tube that I have heard from top to bottom. In general the 45 Type tubes have great level of detail, intimacy and linearity and can be implemented in full range duties, as I have done with the Voice Transmission “Tenor”/Fostex full range drivers, without sacrificing anything, when used to drive full range speakers or drivers with 100dB or greater efficiency.

The Type 10/10Y/VT-25/801/VT-62/801A tube is actually better in terms of clarity, neutrality, transparency and “honesty” but the bass performance can lack impact and weight when compared to the Type 45 tubes. So when I decided to have a statement tube amplifier custom built, I went with the 801A., as can be seen driving the TAD TD-4001 Alnico drivers with Beryllium diaphragms.

So it depends on what application you plan to use your tube amp, which you are considering, in; if it is full range duties then the 45’s get my vote, but if you plan to spare the flea-power amp the bass duties, as I have done in the two TAD compression horn driver systems depicted above, then perhaps the Type 50 would yield greater satisfaction and better results.

Let’s face it, these flea power Single Ended Triode/Direct Heated Triode amps put out between 1.5 and 5.6 Watts, do you really want to use any of that power to drive a large bass driver (s)? The 2A3’s and 300B’s, while very good are a compromise for greater power output at the expense of “some” the lower output power Thoragated tungsten filaments triodes’ magic. I had a tube guru once tell me, “the 45’s are everything the 2A3’s and 300B’s which they could be”.

Now these are all generalities, my ViVA Aurora T monoblocks, with two 211/VT-4-C for rectification, a 211/VT-4-C driver and 845 output tube, gives me 18 to 22 watts and most of the magic of the lower powered triode tubes.

There simply is no right answer, recipe or formula. Most people see my collection as a big lot of equipment, I see it as separate optimized and well thought out systems. The key is to use the various components in applications that maximize their strengths and not try to make them into something that they are not.

Have a look at the Thomas Mayer website, VinylSavor, if you are not already familiar with it. Thomas’ blog has a ton of insightful information.

Thomas Mayer VinylSavor Blog
Thanks guys, that info is all really helpful.

I plan to use a 45 or 50 type amp (initially) to drive the wide ranger CD in my existing horns while I use the 805/300B LM amp to drive the 15 inch woofers in my 96bd Pap OBs.

Carlos I had gone to the vinylsavor blog earlier to see Thomas’s thoughts as well. Always a great site.

But also thinking should I go for more high efficiency DIY horns then I’ll have plenty of options to power them.

I haven’t always had the best experience with actives and usually am generally happy to go simpler but I do think I need to reopen that option maybe if I go for 4 way horns down the track. Lots of choices but both of your feedback helps me to narrow down my research. Much appreciated.
 

Ron Resnick

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I love those Viva Auroras!
 

Carlos269

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When I say that the there are no rules, recipes or formulas for assembling a truly great system, I mean that you can assemble it with components regardless of their costs, pedigree, prestige, or general acceptance by the flavor of the month crowd followers. Here is one such system, which held me hostage for five hours this morning, enjoying disc after disc:

Multi-format universal disc player into a Darkvoice 6SN7 preamplifier with upgraded capacitors and NOS tubes feeding a custom complete rebuilt, with modern boutique parts and finished in Ferrari Red and Silver, Dynaco ST-70 amplifier by Cleby driving a pair of Tekton Design OB4.5 Open Baffle Hybrid Speakers:


This system is sublime and it pulls the total disappearance act in that it leaves you with just you and the music; no system, no room, no iPad, no iPhone, no internet, just suspends the outside world. And yes, with its EL34 push-pull output tubes it does sound better to me than my other system with the 45’s SET DHT driving the full range Fostex drivers, with which it shares the same wall and rack in one of my music/remastering/listening rooms.
 
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Carlos269

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I love those Viva Auroras!

Ron I couldn’t agree with you more. Every piece of equipment that I have heard from ViVA Audio has been terrific. It feels like ViVA Audio and it’s designer, Amedeo Schembri, are great but often overlooked by the “Uber” high-end connoisseurs.

Here is my ViVA Audio 300B integrated amplifier driving a pair of Dale Pitcher’s Essence Electro-Acoustics Reference Super Gem speakers:


Dale Pitcher is the “Hoodoo Man” of high-end audio. Dale is another one of the great ones. These pair of maxed out Super Gems along with the ViVA 300B integrated make for a very simple but serious system. The precision and articulation of this combo is really special; perhaps it is due to the Dynaudio drivers that Dale used in his Essence speakers. Really wonderful speakers that Dale produced for Essence, Intuitive and Mosaic Acoustics.
 
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Carlos269

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Reading the excellent “Yet Another Hybrid ESL Project“ thread by Jazzman53:

Yet Another Hybrid ESL Project

With further pictures and details on his blog:

Jazzman53’s Blog

Inspired me to listen tonight to the only electrostatic speakers based system in my collection. Jazzman’s expertly crafted work produced that quality that all refined electrostatic speakers seem to share, crystal clear transparency and a detailed and well delineated presentation.

My system below is based on a multi-format universal disc player, with streaming capabilities, into a Jeff Rowland Coherence series I MK II preamplifier driving a pair of Sonic Frontiers Power 3 Special Edition - Plus (optimized) 220 watt 6550 amplifiers driving the original Martin-Logan CLS II speakers, with a pair of the Rythmik L12 subwoofers handling the bass duties below 100Hz. The choice of acquiring the original CLS II version over the IIA or IIZ was easy as this is a similar situation with the Apogee Scintilla’s in that they are the best sounding of the series but a tough load for amplifiers to drive because of the impedance dips to 1 ohm at high frequencies; thus-for the 220watt Power 3 SE+’s.

 

Carlos269

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Ever try a subwoofer in the mix?

If this is in reference to the Martin Logan CLS II system, there is pair of Rythmik L12 active subwoofers in the system as used and recorded. I like drive and articulation over boominess when it comes to bass reproduction so the various subwoofers in my systems are not mixed to stand out but rather to complement the main speakers’ bass drivers and take over the responsibilities, in this particular system below 100Hz.
 
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Carlos269

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Speaking of subwoofers, with all of this free time around the house, today I spent the afternoon playing around and listening to the smaller of my two re-mastering systems:

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This system is in one of my music/mastering/listening rooms. Although this is the smaller of my two mastering systems it has some really unique and special one of a kind and ultra rare equipment, including a pair of the massive Whise Profunder 624 subwoofers, and this particular pair came out of George Lucas’ home screening room:

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But the Whise subs are not exactly the headliners in this system, that title goes to my SADiE 5 DSD8 Super Audio CD (SACD) authoring Digital Audio Workstation (DAW):

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The SADiE 5 DSD8 and specially modified equipment send Raw-DSD to the original Meitner DSD DAC and gets input Raw-DSD from the original Meitner DSD ADC converters.Many of the original single-layer SACD’s were recorded on this very equipment.

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For the purpose of an honest comparison of this system’s playback against my other systems on this thread, I kept the signal path short and straight forward and eliminated all the inserts/send-return to the mastering equipment.

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The signal path is CD output in this recording to maintain the same source as on the previous videos: digital output into a Krell Audio + Video Standard processor in preamp mode feeding a pair of Avalon Design X-2 Class A monoblocks crossovers with external power supplies, to a reference mastering grade Penny+Giles 8-channel level adjuster driving the otherly massive and ultra mega rare MIDAS “The Brick” 1,000 Watts 4-Chanel power amplifier, the massive gold block in the middle of the bottom shelve, which powers both a pair of upgraded EAW MS-63 mastering monitors and the afore mentioned monstrous and ultra rare Whise Profunder 624 subwoofers:

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Later I will video some playback of Raw-DSD through this system which is entirely on another realm, but not fair for the purpose of the comparison of the reference track across my multiple systems.

 
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cjfrbw

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I could be mistaken, but is that box left of middle with the rosewood type frame on the second shelf from the bottom a modified pair of el84 microphone and playback amps taken from an Akai reel to reel tape deck? I had a pair of those for a while that I had bought for $100, but I heard that some studios spruced them up to use with microphones.
 

Carlos269

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I could be mistaken, but is that box left of middle with the rosewood type frame on the second shelf from the bottom a modified pair of el84 microphone and playback amps taken from an Akai reel to reel tape deck? I had a pair of those for a while that I had bought for $100, but I heard that some studios spruced them up to use with microphones.

Roberts 770X (Akai M8) reel to reel tape deck electronics.

The electronics have been transformed into a one-of-a-kind single ended stereo tube amplifier, dual monoblocks, in custom wooden case. This amp was built using modified Akai/Roberts vintage 1960's amplifiers mounted in a custom wooden cabinet.

The backbone of this amp is the ultra high quality vintage transformer "iron" inside, and the basic design- while many other makes scrimped on transformers by using one PST for the entire amp, or one preamp tube for both channels, this amp has a separate PST (power supply transformer), OPT (output transformer or output coil), and output choke for each channel. Each channel also has it's own phono section, preamp and final amp output tubes.

Back in 1964 these amps were $449 each. The labor, materials, and parts used in these amps back in the day, makes them unbuildable on a large production line scale today for any mass consumer market.

Front panel controls include volume, tone, equalization selector for each channel, dual lit VU meters, dual power on/off switches. Inputs on left side include tape/CD line in, phono in, mic in, pre amp out. Outputs on right side include left speaker, right speaker, stereo headphone jack. Input selector switches are on back, slide right for tape/cd, slide left for phono. Tube compliment for each block is 6x4 rectifier, 6267 phono preamp, 12ax7 line in preamp, 6bq5 final amp output stage. Empty tube socket for factory 6ar5 tube for former tape deck erase head is no longer used, and no longer needed with these mods.

Single ended stereo amps are well known for their ghostly holographic imaging, and because of the even order harmonics from single ended tubes these are easy to listen to for long periods of time, such as in a studio environment.

You hear new details and sounds in what were once thought to be very familiar recordings- as these amps bring out every little noise and extreme detail in the recording- right down to the musicians breathing or moving in their chairs, and their fingers scraping the guitar strings. As you know, for those used to solid state amps, a single ended tube amp opens a whole new world of musical enjoyment. These single ended tube amps have very few components in the signal path to blur the sound.
 
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Carlos269

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RAW-DSD playback on mastering system #2:

 
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Carlos269

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One of the great things about this online forum, and others, is that it provides the opportunity to learn about new music and recordings that you were not previously aware of. This is such a recording, played back on my reference system:

 
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Carlos269

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I spent the day listening to two of my systems which feature a mixture of vintage and modern components. The first system has a multi-format player which sends its PCM stream to a very rare Muji Studio tube dac based on the famed Philips TDA-1541 R2R digital-to-analog converter to a vintage Nakamichi 610 control preamplifier which feeds a MB Quarts VitaliZer sound enhancer that drives the rare and massive Epochal EM-1 power amplifier, which powers Hales Concept 2 speakers, my favorite of all of Paul’s designs:

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Solid presentation with a wide and holographic soundstage, here playing the reference track:


The second system takes the analog outputs of the multi-format universal player directly to the very, VERY special venerable Sansui AU-111, this one 1969 vintage, a beauty in class and style, which power modern Andrew Jones designed Elac F5 speakers, first production run:

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And the reference track on this system:

 

Kingrex

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Did you like the Maker Amplifiers. I bought them but something was all off and they overheated so I sent them back. They had been damaged in shipping. I still ate $750 and moved on. Still wonder if they are any good.
 

Carlos269

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I do like the Maker amps. I have the 3A’s, which implement Tom’s latest circuit design and ultra high current topology. If you check out the first video on page one, they are driving the bass towers on the Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush, while the Spectral monoblocks powered the ribbon towers. I also tried them on the big ribbon towers but I had a gain/impedance mismatch which led to clipping their input stage. They are very open and articulate sounding amps. They have also worked well with my CLS electrostatics and in full range duty on my Dale Pitcher’s Intuitive Design speakers.
 
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Carlos269

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Today I have been listening to one of my favorite systems, the truth is I respect and appreciate them all but this one is special because of its ease of use and because it sounds extremely elegant, sophisticated and refined, and those adjectives also describe the system’s form:

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It all starts with a LampizatOr Transport feeding the Swiss Made DA48 dac by JOB, which is connected into the Goldmund Mimesis 2 preamplifier, who’s outputs connect to the Cello Audio/Mark Levinson designed AR Limited Model 6 equalizer that outputs into a Goldmund Mimesis 9++, with the gold A2 ceramic amplification modules, and this massive amplifier is rare because of its 9++ revision and the brush finished faceplate, which may be the only one of its kind as all others that I’m Aware of are matte finished, which powers the lead-lined Paragon Acoustics Regent speakers, which feature all Dynaudio drivers.

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This is a really wonderful system and here it is playing back the reference track:

 

Carlos269

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I was back in the large main dedicated listening room last night, listening to my reference system.

Based on my review of the videos of the reference track that I have recorded on my systems, thus far as there are more to go, I adjusted the levels between the bass towers and the ribbon towers on the Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush speakers and re-recorded the reference track:


Also enjoyed listening to the late Chris Cornell performing this cover:


I also re-recorded the cover of Yellow by Noah Gundersen:

 

Carlos269

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Another day of good listening, this time on two other systems. I began today’s listening session on a truly reference class system sourced by the Air Studio tuned Pioneer D9 MK II-K SACD player into the Uber rare Spendor Acoustic Engineering 01 modular preamplifier, this is Spendor from Germany and not to be confused with the British Spendor speaker company, which drives a pair of Cello Audio Performance monoblock amplifiers, which power a pair of AR Classic 30 speakers, designed by David Day of Day Sequerra fame, and the speakers are complemented by a pair of SYZYGY powered subwoofers:

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The Spendor modular preamplifier is a real pearl of a component, polished and solid. I have been asked why I don’t use the Cello Audio Suite modular preamplifier in this system and my response has been that I found a better preamplifier in the Spendor 01, and it just so happed to be both modular and fit the motif of the Cello Audio components. This is an extremely rare piece, especially fully loaded with the phono stage and tape cards and all the input and output cards:

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And the reference track for comparison:

 
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Carlos269

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The second half of today’s listening session was done on a very interesting system that I set-up for playback for when I spend time reconfiguring or fine tuning the large mastering system on the adjacent wall. I found the magic of a well implemented mini monitor With this system. The source is an Esoteric DV-50S and the preamplifier in this system is a very rare, perhaps the only one in existence, Wisdom Audio Statement preamplifier, which drives an FM Acoustics 601A Precision High Power Class A studio amplifier, which powers a pair of customized and fine-tuned mini monitors:

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And of course the reference track on this system:

 

kach22i

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Carlos, with all the different setups and changes two questions come to mind.

1. Room acoustics and placement, how much attention does it gather?

2. Scratches, dents and connector fatigue, how do you avoid it?
 

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