Furutech GTX-D Rhodium NCF Outlet

[marty]

Oh that is a shame! Have eaten at Taverne du Passage previously and the moules were excellent. Thanks for putting the other two restaurants onto my radar.

You guys don't know how good you have it. Belgians are inherently foodies and the choices of good restaurants are almost limitless. And of course, there are more chocolate shops per square kilometer than there are Starbuck's in Seattle. Now add to that list, one of the most extensive beer selections in the world and honestly, I have no idea how anyone manages to go to work at all!

Went to hear a piano/organ recital last night at Bozar. Le Boeuf hall is a beautiful sounding, medium sized hall with an impressive, newly renovated monumental organ (as of September!). Looked at the season concert schedule and it's darn impressive including some great organ recitals, classical, world music and jazz. Lovely city with this gem of a music venue.

 

[DaveC]

There seem to be 3 main players in the world of top end silver connectors for audio (XLR, RCA and outlets).
Two of these are surprisingly, Australian. Both Bocchino and ETI Research both use silver plated copper.
http://www.eti-research.com.au/kryo-xlr-connector/
http://www.bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/baxlr.htm

However, only Stealth offers solid silver connectors and outlets, and naturally claims they are superior to silver plated copper. Or as Serguei Timachev told me "If Bocchino (or anyone else’s) RCAs and/or XLR connectors (and spade lugs) were good enough, we would have simply used them with our cables, instead of going into the great troubles of designing and making our own."

I've got some Bocchino XLRs on order and have the ETI research XLRs in house ready to try on my Masterbuilt Ultra interconnects. (BTW, The founder of ETI research is the guy who made the famous Eichmann bullet silver connectors widely used for tone-arm cable).

I honestly have no idea which one of these 3 is "the best" (if there is such a thing). But I know this. I am currently on Sablon Square in Brussels and can tell you that as a result of some guidance by my Belgian hosts, the best chocolate here is made by Pierre Marcolini (which can't be bought outside of Belgium). It's funny to see that the Belgians look upon other pretenders such as Godiva, Leonidas, Neuhaus and most others with the same disparagement that audiophiles have when they look down on Bose!

Meanwhile, no money for audio for a while. I've got a damn suitcase full of Marcolini chocolate to take home instead!

IMO, WBT makes the world's best connectors. Their platinum plated silver RCA plugs and speaker connectors are the best, nothing can touch them imo. The closest to no connector you're going to get. Unfortunately they don't make XLRs, or AC connectors out of their platinum plated silver.

I'm open to an AC receptacle beating the Furutech NCF, but I seriously doubt anyone will. The NCF material is a massive advantage no amount of metallurgy is going to overcome.

 

[Sablon Audio]

ETI claimed their parts were pure silver when they were really silver plated...

Think you may be confusing KLEI and ETI.

 

[DaveC]

Think you may be confusing KLEI and ETI.

Yes, sorry. I'm confused!

 

[bazelio]

Why are silver or silver plated contacts in open air a good thing? I would think corrosion would occur within the first year.

 

[DaveC]

Why are silver or silver plated contacts in open air a good thing? I would think corrosion would occur within the first year.

Yeah, I agree in theory and most of the time this does happen. However, I do have a couple of silver items that do not corrode... silver plated mil-spec wire and Xhadow RCA plugs. Both are silver plated and not pure silver, and they don't corrode for whatever reason. UPOCC silver wire corrodes very slowly, it takes a few years in my environment for it to turn completely black while regular silver wire corrodes much more quickly. I think the lack of grain boundaries in OCC wire seals it to some degree, but eventually it does corrode.

 

[ack]

The Xhadow RCA and XLR are used by MIT in their top lines, and indeed they don't corrode. They are top shelf connectors, sonically and from an engineering perspective

 

[Sablon Audio]

I used Xhadow connectors for a number of years on my pre-Reserva generation of signal cables and have seen plenty of examples of oxidisation. That is not meant as a slight on the brand, since it is inevitable for silver to oxidise, and it can be easily wiped off with a silver cloth. The humidity of the domestic environment will also play a part in how quickly this happens. Candidly, I would be more concerned about a silver contact not oxidising since that could imply the presence of some kind of surface coating.

 

[marty]

There have been some interesting recent posts regarding plated terminations in audio. For example, I had no idea WBT offered platinum plated silver connections until Dave brought this to our attention. I also didn't know Xhadow was the source of the connectons used my MIT. I must admit, I've not really seen any obvious changes color in those connectors on my SHDs when I had them, but the issue of silver oxidation and conductivity drove me to the literature for a few hours of homework. For what it’s worth, here’s where I’m at regarding some of these issues.

1) What’s the story with silver oxide? Does it really have excellent conductivity?

To begin, one of the bigger misconceptions is that silver readily oxidizes. Actually, it does not and this is widely cited. Most of the literature I found supports the idea that silver does not oxidize readily at room temperature, although it is indeed more reactive than gold. As far as the conductivity of silver oxide, there’s no definitive answer to this question that I can find. Much to my astonishment, I found that none other than John Curl asked the same question on a few forums over 20 years ago and never received a good answer! One of the likely reasons is because there is no good conductivity data for “silver oxide” as it really depends on which metal silver is reacting with when it tarnishes. When silver does tarnish in air, the most common reaction is with sulfur, thus forming silver sulfide, which everyone agrees is not a great conductor. Silver aggressively reacts with hydrogen sulfide, a gas that naturally occurs and also comes from cooking eggs (even fresh) and from the car exhaust. If you have none of these sources in your area, or if you don’t fart a lot near your audio gear, then your silver plated connectors will likely stay shiny for quite some time.

There’s also quite a literature on “doping” silver with various metals to improve its resistance to oxidation. In that area, it seems palladium and not platinum is the preferred metal, but doping is not the same thing as plating, so these results are probably irrelevant for our purposes.

Of course, none of this answers the obvious question as to what material sounds best. Most of the time, users will have little choice as the type of connectors will be determined by the cable manufacturer; i,e, Cardas prefers rhodium over silver plate over copper; MIT uses the Xhadow silver-plated over gold; Masterbuilt uses Furutech rhodium plate over gold; Bocchino and ETI use silver plate over gold; Stealth uses pure silver and the list goes on. However, if you are really insane, have nothing better to do or have a serious DYI audio disorder, have fun and play with these and let us know what you learn!

 

[Jambo]

Bocchino now also offer a USA wall socket. Although I haven’t yet tried this, their ac plugs are simply the best I have heard by a country mile, so I would expect it to be a contender. People should also try upgrade the iec inlet in their equipment as most aftermarket options are much better sounding than the generic ones many manufacturers use.

Hopefully this is on topic...

A bit of a story. In my audio travels I came across the name Bocchino as making some of the best connectors in the business and possibly a rumour that they were doing an American power socket. I stored it away as things to investigate. They make the US power plugs and the iec connectors that Elrod uses on their ultra expensive power cables.

Then recently on this very thread I came across his name again saying he has just launched a proper American power socket – from the small snippet I found out that he’s based in Australia. I send a PM to Sablon Audio (Mark) to give me Bocchino's contact details – I got it and also the fact that he’s based in Macleay island (close to Brisbane).

I send Bocchino an email saying I want him to do an audiophile Australian wall socket. He said that he can’t adopt his US design due to the non-parallel Aus pins sockets and anyway they are too expensive for the Australian market.

Another story in parallel – I joined the Queensland Audio club a few months ago and met quite a few other "Audio nuts’ like myself and one person I met called himself Nino – which I presumed was of Italian origin. I met him again yesterday and we got chatting and he was talking about buying ultra-expensive capacitors and resistors for his home made speakers – he says would you like to see pictures of my speakers ? I say sure…he then bring up his speakers on his phone and I immediately recognise the speakers, having seen them on the Bocchino web site, so the first question out of my mouth after seeing the picture – tell me your full name ! and he tells me “Carmine Bocchino”, I start laughing!
I say, you know I’ve been trying to contact you about making an Audiophile Australia power socket.

So we talk some more and I say I was going to invite myself around to discuss the Aus socket – he says you are welcome to come along.

I did ask about the US wall socket he said they are between $400 and $500 ( I say this as I can't remember the exact figure he quoted). You Americans (and everywhere they use US sockets) are lucky to have such a high end socket avaiable - we have no such luck here in Aus. And from his descriptions of the socket it sounds awsome !

Today, I checked my emails as soon as I arrived back from a picnic with friends, Carmine had sent an email inviting me come down to Macleay island for a coffee and a listen !

Hopefully when that happens I'll be able to see the American socket in the flesh. And I may convience him to do something about an Australia wall socket.

 

[ayreman]

IMO, WBT makes the world's best connectors. Their platinum plated silver RCA plugs and speaker connectors are the best, nothing can touch them imo. The closest to no connector you're going to get.

Dave, but what about these?
http://www.furutech.com/2013/01/27/1060/
Surely you must have compared them with WBT Ag spades! What did you hear?

 

[DaveC]

Dave, but what about these?
http://www.furutech.com/2013/01/27/1060/
Surely you must have compared them with WBT Ag spades! What did you hear?

Hi, sorry for the delay, been busy!

Yes, I have compared them... for speaker level connectors I might go with Furutech, it's a tough call. There isn't a huge difference in sound quality, and the WBTs are slightly more neutral, but the build quality of the Furutech spades and bananas is amazing. WBT makes you wonder how this can possibly be a $100 spade with the clear plastic construction of the body. However, the WBT spade it's self is an excellent design... it's just wrapped in clear plastic while Furutech is wrapped in stainless steel and carbon fiber. It's a striking difference. For binding posts Furutech's torque guard is pretty neat, and I like the FT series "wirewound" posts especially for high efficiency speakers. But, WBT silver is again hard to beat... a tough call but really impossible to go wrong. For pure sound quality WBT has to take it, but I like the Furutech construction quality better.

For RCA plugs I can say the WBT 0102 Ag are better vs Furutech CF-102(R). For signal cables it makes more of a difference, and it could also be the low-mass design of the WBT vs Furutech's traditional design. For my cables using WBT plugs I add some mechanical damping to the locking barrel, and a few layers of teflon tape to the threads to keep the locking barrel from flying off of the plug. From a cable construction standpoint the WBTs are easy to use as the barrel isn't captured behind the plug, but it can fall off easily.

 

[ayreman]

Well, my full set of Furutech CF-201 (R) has arrived and I would like to reterminate my AQ Wild Wood speaker cables. Furutech says "conductor wires can be fixed by screw set or soldering". Well, for signal transmission soldering is clearly better. Problem is how do you solder all that mass of metal conductors on Wild Wood to the body of CF-201 (R)? What method would you use? I mean... just heating that thing is a challenge!

Anyone successfully soldered CF-201 (R) onto their speaker cables? If so, how did you do it?

 

[bazelio]

Nah, don't solder speaker wire. Get crimp sleeves and a crimping tool. The WBT sleeves and tool is what I've used. Both are fine with Furutech connectors. Then you just use the set screws.

 

[Uk Paul]

Ayreman,
You can solder, you just need a good iron, it takes some heating, and tin well and feed the solder in via the holes, hold the spade upright in a vice with protectors and feed your wire in from above and secure to keep it still.. But as bazelio also says WBT crimps are good also, I have done both, and probably have a preference for soldered.

 

[DaveC]

The 201s are best used with the set-screw, no solder, no crimp. Soldering to rhodium plating requires more heat so it'll be very difficult to solder, and it won't sound as good as simply using the set screw. Also with soldering you have no way to make a connection besides solder, imo when you solder it should be just to hold things in place, the parts being soldered should be in firm contact with one another before soldering.

Finally, the CF-201s have a stainless steel fitting pinned permanently to the spade and it will absorb heat, the CF-201 and the FT-211 should never be soldered at all.

Prepping the wire for a set screw can be important, but many times it's fine to just twist the wires up. For my OCC silver wire I wrap the ends in another layer of wire instead of using a crimp sleeve and I also use the Furutech nano-liquid.

BTW, I am a Furutech dealer, I stock many parts and can order anything you may want... and my sales always comes with free advice.

I'd also mention that many Furutech products are counterfeited, and pretty much everything on ebay, Amazon and Alibaba are fakes. I run into people who don't buy from me because they can find it cheaper elsewhere, but the truth is you can't unless it's an extraordinary circumstance. Furutech monitors online sales and legit dealers can't get away with it. I offer the lowest prices I'm allowed to and buy direct from Furutech's US distributor.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Another way to avoid the set screws damaging the wire strands is to put a thin strip of copper between the two to spread the load. This approach helps avoid losses from putting other materials into the signal path, since the original wire will still make full contact with the body of the spade.

 

[bazelio]

I had a clear preference for the crimp sleeves vs bare (stranded) wire inside those connectors as the end result came together more cleanly. There's a lot of extra space in there, which is maybe why Dave is wrapping extra wire. But I didn't like the splaying of the bare wires inside the connectors and felt best using the sleeves. Caig ProGold is what I use in lieu of the Furutech stuff. Works great at substantial cost savings.

If worried about signal loss from materials, we should then be considering bare wire and ditching the connectors.

 

[Uk Paul]

So much depends on the receptacle shape and size and the wire / wire bundle once prepared. As Sablon suggests, a clamping plate is good if the bundle is considerably smaller than the receptacle.

 

[DaveyF]

Hi, sorry for the delay, been busy!

Yes, I have compared them... for speaker level connectors I might go with Furutech, it's a tough call. There isn't a huge difference in sound quality, and the WBTs are slightly more neutral, but the build quality of the Furutech spades and bananas is amazing. WBT makes you wonder how this can possibly be a $100 spade with the clear plastic construction of the body. However, the WBT spade it's self is an excellent design... it's just wrapped in clear plastic while Furutech is wrapped in stainless steel and carbon fiber. It's a striking difference. For binding posts Furutech's torque guard is pretty neat, and I like the FT series "wirewound" posts especially for high efficiency speakers. But, WBT silver is again hard to beat... a tough call but really impossible to go wrong. For pure sound quality WBT has to take it, but I like the Furutech construction quality better.

For RCA plugs I can say the WBT 0102 Ag are better vs Furutech CF-102(R). For signal cables it makes more of a difference, and it could also be the low-mass design of the WBT vs Furutech's traditional design. For my cables using WBT plugs I add some mechanical damping to the locking barrel, and a few layers of teflon tape to the threads to keep the locking barrel from flying off of the plug. From a cable construction standpoint the WBTs are easy to use as the barrel isn't captured behind the plug, but it can fall off easily.

Dave, if you wrap the barrel of the RCA with a few layers of teflon, doesn't that make it very hard to actually turn on and off the thread when releasing the RCA from the input? I agree the barrel on my WBT's has dropped off a few times, which is annoying, but one just screws it back on. The trick is to remember to turn it towards the input when releasing, otherwise you are possibly overtightening the whole affair, which I worry could actually lead to some damage. That aspect to me seems to be the biggest concern with this type of plug.