Gizmodo Visit With Mikey

[rockitman]

wow, his room in the basement is tighter and more cluttered than mine. This is an old article...circa 2009. He has XLF in that room now, I believe.

 

[jap]

Yes, I can. It's simple physics. He will have not have good bass in that room, no matter how expensive his turntable.

Do you think this reviewers' rooms will have good bass?

 

[Dre_J]

Dre

It's not the turnover of equipment I see here but rather a very untidy and messy room. Anyhow, I am not going to dwell on it. All of us have made our points

Steve,

Your point

but rather a very untidy and messy room

is fairly clearer now.

But the points/comments buy others about how the room sounds based on a few photos is somewhat baffling.

Dre

 

[rockitman]

Really? Well maybe you could do a workup of your simple physics and let us know what we should expect in that room since a single set of incomplete pictures is all you need to make an incredible statement such as that. This should be interesting...

Dre

+1. Got to love Paranormal Mediums...

 

[andromedaaudio]

No the coupling from the speaker to the floor is far from ideal imo

Do you think this reviewer's room will have good bass?
View attachment 14261

 

[microstrip]

I feel happy the WBF tidying brigade leaves thousandths of miles from me, otherwise my space would be in danger. My ground floor room doubles as my office, listening room and sometimes workshop - and some times I do not feel happy with the confusion created by papers, books, pens, computers, turntables, tape machines, amplifiers, cables, speakers, CD's , LPs, tapes, soldering iron and some tools. But it is clean, the armchairs are comfortable, I enjoy the paintings, it sounds good and I still manage to find the things I need in an average time of less that 10 seconds. Every time my usual dealer comes in he is always says that all his clients should have a space like that. The "Art et Decoration" section is kept upstairs (surely with the contribution of vintage Sonus Faber's ... ).

Just to say that I feel happy when I see pictures such as those of Mikey or Peter rooms - they are passionate audiophiles who also are able to communicate their passion much better than the average audiophile.

 

[dallasjustice]

Really? Well maybe you could do a workup of your simple physics and let us know what we should expect in that room since a single set of incomplete pictures is all you need to make an incredible statement such as that. This should be interesting...

Dre

Size matters when it comes to listening rooms.

With speakers that large and and so many boundaries so close to each speaker, he will have 3 significant SBIRs (ceiling, sidewall and frontwall). I don't understand why this is controversial for you. Atkinson has posted 1/6 FR of Fremer's room in Stereopile. You can review it yourself. In fact, he's mentioned how low Fremer's ceiling is. Look at figure number 6. This is only 1/6 averaging, but you can see a good 10-15db energy loss covering almost all of the lower bass to mid-bass. I am sure if we got more detailed measurements you would see the individual nulls for each of the three boundaries mentioned herein.

This is only a problem if you place any blind faith in what a reviewer like Fremer has to say about the gear found in his vinyl closet.

 

[microstrip]

Have you heard this room? Suddenly you can now tell how anybody's room sounds based on how it looks?

Dre

We had a similar exchange of posts concerning HP listening room in a separate thread a few days ago. I would be very careful denigrating someone listening space based on a few photos.

 

[rockitman]

This is only a problem if you place any blind faith in what a reviewer like Fremer has to say about the gear found in his record player closet.

so you have no comment about the inferiority of digital playback versus that of analog ?

 

[dallasjustice]

so you have no comment about the inferiority of digital playback versus that of analog ?

I am not talking about vinyl vs. digital. I am just talking about the speaker/room interaction. I revised my remarks to make it a little more clear.

 

[microstrip]

Size matters when it comes to listening rooms.

With speakers that large and and so many boundaries so close to each speaker, he will have 3 significant SBIRs (ceiling, sidewall and frontwall). I don't understand why this is controversial for you. Atkinson has posted 1/6 FR of Fremer's room in Stereopile. You can review it yourself. In fact, he's mentioned how low Fremer's ceiling is. Look at figure number 6. This is only 1/6 averaging, but you can see a good 10-15db energy loss covering almost all of the lower bass to mid-bass. I am sure if we got more detailed measurements you would see the individual nulls for each of the three boundaries mentioned herein.

This is only a problem if you place any blind faith in what a reviewer like Fremer has to say about the gear found in his vinyl closet.

Surely a larger room could help. But I consider that FR is usually a poor tool to evaluate system performance. If I place my speakers using simulators such as CARA or using REW I can get nice measurements, but sound quality is very inferior to what I get placing them by experience. The measurements are a good diagnosing tool, they will help you understand your room, but are not a reliable indicator of speaker position optimization. Most audio designers voice their speakers for real rooms, Wilson Audio speakers are known for that characteristic.

One good think of MF room is that many people have been there and have posted their opinions on its sound quality - it is not an unknown space for many of us.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Have you heard this room? Suddenly you can now tell how anybody's room sounds based on how it looks?

Dre

+1

 

[Dre_J]

Original statement

I've never seen that many photos of his room. It's pretty interesting.

Reviewing a $350,000 system in that room is like having the opportunity is kiss a super model on the lips and opt for a hug and peck on the cheek instead. What a mess!

Might as well do the review in a hotel room. It wouldn't sound any worse.

Michael.

Latest comment

Size matters when it comes to listening rooms.

With speakers that large and and so many boundaries so close to each speaker, he will have 3 significant SBIRs (ceiling, sidewall and frontwall). I don't understand why this is controversial for you. Atkinson has posted 1/6 FR of Fremer's room in Stereopile. You can review it yourself. In fact, he's mentioned how low Fremer's ceiling is. Look at figure number 6. This is only 1/6 averaging, but you can see a good 10-15db energy loss covering almost all of the lower bass to mid-bass. I am sure if we got more detailed measurements you would see the individual nulls for each of the three boundaries mentioned herein.

This is only a problem if you place any blind faith in what a reviewer like Fremer has to say about the gear found in his vinyl closet.

I think it's pretty clear there has been a shift in narrative and context from your original statement. It would have been much less a controversial comment if the first post would have been specific to your disapproval of in-room measurements in the power region of the low frequencies.

The issue with your original statement and even part of your changing narrative is the fact that you haven't listened to anything in that room regardless of the measured result of a few speakers.

I'm fully aware of the amplitude nonlinearities as measured for specific loudspeaker reviews in his room. However, that alone does not warrant, without some explanation IMO, such a bold original comment as post #3.

Am I to gather from the narrative shift that you have a problem with what? bass? and of his vinyl since analog seems to run as a subcontext in your posts on this thread?

Dre

 

[MylesBAstor]

Do you think this reviewers' rooms will have good bass?
View attachment 14261
View attachment 14262

Do you think those speakers have good bass?

 

[MylesBAstor]

Surely a larger room could help. But I consider that FR is usually a poor tool to evaluate system performance. If I place my speakers using simulators such as CARA or using REW I can get nice measurements, but sound quality is very inferior to what I get placing them by experience. The measurements are a good diagnosing tool, they will help you understand your room, but are not a reliable indicator of speaker position optimization. Most audio designers voice their speakers for real rooms, Wilson Audio speakers are known for that characteristic.

One good think of MF room is that many people have been there and have posted their opinions on its sound quality - it is not an unknown space for many of us.

BTW, Larry Marcus put MAXX-3s (IIRC) in a hotel room at RMAF with Doshi electronics and got damn good sound.

I just love how some people here know it all and have such little regard for Mikey (and most reviewers) and think he is an total idiot. Give him some credit, given his many years as a reviewer. Do you think he's so retarded as to:

1) Put a speaker in his room that wouldn't work?
2) Wouldn't check with Wilson before hand? (eg. see Steve W.'s move)
3) Wilson/Peter McGrath wouldn't have set them up optimally?

I think people should as Dre J suggests, reserve judgement until they hear a room. As Microstrip averred, there are rooms that should sound good that don't too. All I know, is that acousticians are only as good as their last room. No one seems to remember those absolutely horrific LEDE rooms created by those brilliant acousticians that measured well and sounded like dreck?

 

[jap]

Do you think those speakers have good bass?

I don't know about the Harbeths, but here's how the Helsinki 1.5s in their recommended postion measured in my room:

 

[MylesBAstor]

I don't know about the Harbeths, but here's how the Helsinki 1.5s in their recommended postion measured in my room:
View attachment 14263

Is that with or without HFTs ?

So they roll off below 60 Hz?

 

[cjfrbw]

MF makes my room look neat, that's pretty bad.

Once the music starts, though, it all disappears.

 

[dallasjustice]

I think I've been pretty consistent in showing that most reviewers, including Fremer, have mediocre rooms. It's a joke to review $350,000 gear in such a crappy setup. Feel free to disagree all you want. I'm not likely to change my opinion.

Original statement


Latest comment


I think it's pretty clear there has been a shift in narrative and context from your original statement. It would have been much less a controversial comment if the first post would have been specific to your disapproval of in-room measurements in the power region of the low frequencies.

The issue with your original statement and even part of your changing narrative is the fact that you haven't listened to anything in that room regardless of the measured result of a few speakers.

I'm fully aware of the amplitude nonlinearities as measured for specific loudspeaker reviews in his room. However, that alone does not warrant, without some explanation IMO, such a bold original comment as post #3.

Am I to gather from the narrative shift that you have a problem with what? bass? and of his vinyl since analog seems to run as a subcontext in your posts on this thread?

Dre

 

[rockitman]

I think I've been pretty consistent in showing that most reviewers, including Fremer, have mediocre rooms. It's a joke to review $350,000 gear in such a crappy setup. Feel free to disagree all you want. I'm not likely to change my opinion.

I think w/o actually hearing the setup, your opinion is hard to take seriously.