What is a "symphonic coloration"? I suppose what is meant here is "euphonic coloration".
Great article on "Analogue Warmth"
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What is a "symphonic coloration"? I suppose what is meant here is "euphonic coloration".
How much is the Vivaldi you keep referring to?
Btw, w.r.t to Analog, it is more important for it to be well set up than be expensive. You will find some boring expensive analog rigs and some excellent sounding cheap ones. The difference being the set up. One of my fears of getting into Analog is I have zero experience in set up.
Revival of the analog vs digital debate for the zillionth time is really flogging a dead hoss.. those who prefer either are right.. there is no absolute audio truth.
As to room acoustics .. well that is where 95% of the systems I have heard in any environment fail dismally.
I was asked whether I would like to spend another Eu10 000 on a 2nd devialet my agent had in stock , he said it would improve the sound..I asked him , 10k on a 2nd amp for monoblocking or a total redo and treatment for my room of the same amount , which did he think would get the best results.. the amp idea went out the window
You HAVE to use dsp to sort out your room below 120hz or so , everything above that can be physically treated to great effect. bass is always the huge problem. Any boom masks the rest of the freq spectrum , hides subtle cues higher up and makes the system sound slow
I have a 500 sq ft fully treated dedicated room , I use a multipronged approach.. walls are all acoustic panels on battens , windows replaced with glass bricks , acoustic door , wooden slatted blinds over the brick windows , special ceiling , diffusion panels on ceiling , tube traps , flat corner straddling bass traps , configurable listening chair and so on
Bass is STILL a nightmare and I use 4 potent subs to try smooth it , a swarm approach , that works well ..HOWEVER I *still* have to use DSP to get it 100% right to integrate the subs and the mains as well etc and to define a target curve that sounds good to me.
If you are into analog and eschew digital in any form , well then you have a problem with bass unless you serendipitously luck on speaker/seat positioning/room /whatever that sort of works , and even if it does work , it cant work as well as a DSP'd setup.
As to room acoustics .. well that is where 95% of the systems I have heard in any environment fail dismally.
I was asked whether I would like to spend another Eu10 000 on a 2nd devialet my agent had in stock , he said it would improve the sound..I asked him , 10k on a 2nd amp for monoblocking or a total redo and treatment for my room of the same amount , which did he think would get the best results.. the amp idea went out the window
You HAVE to use dsp to sort out your room below 120hz or so , everything above that can be physically treated to great effect. bass is always the huge problem. Any boom masks the rest of the freq spectrum , hides subtle cues higher up and makes the system sound slow
I have a 500 sq ft fully treated dedicated room , I use a multipronged approach.. walls are all acoustic panels on battens , windows replaced with glass bricks , acoustic door , wooden slatted blinds over the brick windows , special ceiling , diffusion panels on ceiling , tube traps , flat corner straddling bass traps , configurable listening chair and so on
Bass is STILL a nightmare and I use 4 potent subs to try smooth it , a swarm approach , that works well ..HOWEVER I *still* have to use DSP to get it 100% right to integrate the subs and the mains as well etc and to define a target curve that sounds good to me.
If you are into analog and eschew digital in any form , well then you have a problem with bass unless you serendipitously luck on speaker/seat positioning/room /whatever that sort of works , and even if it does work , it cant work as well as a DSP'd setup.
Marty's room, which is the best room I have been in so far, and Steve Williams rates it and ddk's, has a Goldmund Studio TT (as well as an EMM Labs) going through a TacT which is after the preamp (the TacT recently broke down but that's a different story). His is also the best bass I have heard along with the trios and the bass horns.
I agree that set-up is crucially important, Peter A. demonstrated that to me.
However, I do think that, regardless of set-up, less than SOTA analog still has its problems, beginning with the phonostage (hearing the $ 45K Pass XS Phono in Madfloyd's system was a stunning revelation to me, showing the shortcomings of lesser units). Less-than SOTA analog is just not for me (and I can't afford SOTA), even though in many respects it can be "excellent sounding" indeed.
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It's no attack. I'm just pointing something out that's extremely important when it comes to DSD. A 1 bit DSD stream is extremely jitter sensitive. A TCXO that has a 10hz phase noise spec of -65Dbc +-30% is unacceptable for any DAC over $200 as far as I'm concerned. Let alone the sensitive DSD clocking in a $20000 DAC.
Haven't heard Marty's room yet. An oversight if there were ever a name for that
.. Many who have gone in his room find it one of the best sound around period! Not the best "bass" only.. This is a testimony to the power of DSP judiciously applied. In this system whatever is played goes through a A to D then a D to A .. Everything. Many loathe DSP and digital with a passion, a trip to Marty's or similar system would convince more than one... My next step is along Rodney Gold and Dallas Justice's paths.ASR emitter (used under 3k GBP), and next price points are Thoress (7k GBP new, said to beat 30k phonos). You don't have to buy Ypsilon or Dartzeel or AR 30k Phono.
Like I said, it is more of set up and knowing what matches then spending big bucks for gear (of course if you can do both that's ideal). I recently heard a Kuzma XL4 with 4 point tonearms and Clearaudio Goldfinger cart in Octave Phono (which is pretty expensive rig) that didn't do anything for me, but I am sure that was set up, because I have heard Bill's much cheaper Kuzma set up sound better.
Haven't heard Marty's room yet. An oversight if there were ever a name for that
Yes it has the best of everything, I mentioned the bass to address Rodney's point - he does not have DSP at the moment so you can follow his JL audio CR1 thread
Or an Audio Research REF 2 phono unit. Due to the SE and REF10 arrival, the used REF 2 become a true bargain!
Someone is on the forum saying the Thoress was better than the Ref 10. Mike L also has a lot of praise for the Tho
I am one of those who prefers digital, but who thinks that the rest of the system has to be capable of making use of it - and then we don't need euphonic "warmth" unless it has been added as an artistic effect within the recording. My signature below says what I think is the minimum system capable of making the most of digital.
I dispute the idea that the room is a great problem - I agree with Linkwitz on this. We hear the speakers direct - so it is perfectly consistent to want to correct them for phase and timing - and then we hear delayed reflections. Our hearing has evolved to separate the two without effort. Audio played in a real room is still 'correct'. Measurements using steady state sine waves or mathematical equivalent, completely exaggerate the audible effects of the room when listening to real music. I would be more concerned with the known, measurable and audible problems with bass reflex speakers than a typical room. With DRC are people really trying to correct the room, or are they running a tone control by the back door?
Arggh, yeah really, like mentioning to my significant other, "you look excellent tonight", and having her reply ... "what do you mean tonight"!
its actually not *really* the room you are correcting , its the sound at listening position.. parametric 'tone" controls are one way , time and freq correction another .. the difference between a treated and untreated room is vast..to make the best out of your hifi spend add the room as a component
I can assure you linkwitz would almost certainly advocate a well set up room over no treatment at all.
You really dont want the room to editorialize the sound after agonizing over the choice of gear to the nth degree.
I can assure you linkwitz would almost certainly advocate a well set up room over no treatment at all.
You really dont want the room to editorialize the sound after agonizing over the choice of gear to the nth degree.
Absolutely, over the last 3 years, I've used my system in 4 completely different rooms, the system remained static, the sound certainly didn't.
"Excellent sounding" depends on taste. Analog that does not accurately represent brass bite, for example, is not for me. I just can't live with a 'polite' sound. But if you can live with the extra softness and roundness of tone that less than SOTA analog offers, or even crave it, then all the good things that a decent turntable can do, great rhythm & timing and good tonal density among them, can indeed sum up to "excellent sound". It's just not for me. I need a believable portrayal of the natural hardness of many unamplified instruments, including brass. I'm too used to good rendition of that aspect of sound from better digital that I could look past it on less than SOTA analog.
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