Gryphon Essence
- Thread starter eagle3333
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Audiovector speakers excel relatively close to the wall, much more so than most high-end speakers. There is a back port on the SR1/R1 and SR3/R3 but the bass alignment is quite damped and controlled, so you do not get any boom. The SR6 has a front facing port + down firing woofer that are pretty forgiving of placement. Also, I find that Audiovectors soundstage a bit differently from traditional speakers - they can image more in front of the speaker, rather than requiring space behind to throw the stage deeper. This means you can get a nice, reasonably deep stage with pretty shallow placement. With many speakers the depth is directly related to the distance from the rear wall.
Here are the recommended rear wall distances:
R1: 15 - 25cm
R3: 20 - 60cm
R6: 35 - 90cm
I generally keep my SR6 in the low end of that range (35-45cm) and sometimes I even tuck them as close as 25cm to the wall and it works great, but yes, the speakers are decently deep vs. the Magico. R3 is compact and very, very nice... the latest improvements make it better in some ways than SR6. Definitely think they are worth a listen. I may try to get them for the smaller house now...
Hmm, since we both agree Essence seems to have the least shaping effect on sound that either of us has ever encountered, perhaps you could say it's because Essence has no inherent character?! Spot-on assessments, TAWW and always a pleasure to read.
We're still here, notwithstanding upcoming second round of brain surgery for g/f and some general weariness with the overall situation, thanks for asking. But, we have it better than so many, hope is on the horizon and I have my Gryphon music. So no grounds to complain. Congrats on the move and hope all well there, too. Look forward to blog pictures of new listening space in future! My dealer now has Audiovector so spring will see a comparison of R6 Arrete and Pantheon
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Yep, per my previous and above, if the A3 is a bit lean as you corroborate (and as I've read about Magico quite often) I would be fairly terrified at the prospect of dropping £30k to Essence combination to it without a demo'..Hello all - I haven't read through the latest flurry of posts in detail, but @_Alchemist_ I have some experience with many of the questions you raised so I'll throw in my $.02.
Totally agree with @eagle3333 that Essence is an altogether different level of transparency over Diablo 300, but this will probably make the Essence more sensitive to the rest of the reproduction chain, recording quality, your room and tastes, etc. Also I will caution that it is so neutral that if you are expecting the trademark Gryphon "dark chocolate" richness, you may be slightly disappointed. By my best assessment it is really very close to DEAD neutral, and as such is less tonally warm than the Diablo 300 (though simultaneously sweeter and less harsh/more effortless at volume). And while @eagle3333 has gotten the best bass ever from his Mojo speakers, on my Audiovectors I think the Diablo 300 has a more powerful bottom end. The Essence bass is extraordinary in quality but not as gut-punching, and on the SR 6 it is a bit light vs. the Pass XA30.5 or a Class D amp I am currently auditioning (ICEdge 1200AS2). Listening to something like Billie Eilish, again with the caveat that this is in my room and system, the Class D amp does better the Essence in sheer visceral punch. Pretty much everything else goes to the Essence as expected, including dynamics despite it being a "50 watt" amp vs. the Class D's 600W+ rating. (It helps that the Audiovectors are 92dB efficient.)
Given above and the big price jump, I would definitely try to do some further research before pulling the trigger on the Essence over the Diablo for a speaker like the Magico A3 which is on the lean and precise side already. I actually know someone who has the A3 and just got the Diablo after trying many different separates (last one was a Krell amp with ARC pre) as well as Audiovector, Focal and other speakers. If you like I can ask him how he's liking the Diablo.
With those caveats noted, I can definitely confirm that the Essence amp is an exquisite piece that will likely get you as close to the music as anything you can buy anywhere near the price. It has that immediate, tactile quality that some of the best megabuck systems I've heard sometimes achieve. The last time I heard resolution like this was in a decked-out MSB Reference + Magico M3 system - yes, the DAC was vastly superior to mine but I think the Essence part of the chain was on par in resolution. Ears I trust tell me the Essence reveals some details that no other Gryphon can, even Mephisto. And it does this without ever sounding the least bit clinical. (Make sure you give it a good power cord though!)
Re: the Zena DAC module, I'm a bit torn as it's obviously "very nice kit" as the Brits like to say and you can clearly hear the quality of the Gryphon implementation - battery-buffered USB supply, Class A analog stages, etc. - but there's just something about most Sabre DACs that doesn't quite click for me. It's a very good match to the preamp and a good choice if you want to set it and forget it, but I do still prefer my PS Audio DirectStream DAC by a hair for most recordings, just to give you a sense of the performance level (obviously there are even better DACs than the DirectStream). Sure, I would take the Zena over things like Benchmark, Mytek, Aurender around the $2-4k price point. I think the RME ADI-2 DAC FS comes pretty close for a lot less money, and I would definitely take, say, a Merging (yes I know it's Sabre but I love it) or MSB or Chord DAVE over it. (I have no experience with the NOS DACs like Lampizator, Holo that are all the rage.) So I think it just depends on how crazy a level of refinement you're looking for.
I have a review of all this coming soon on the blog, much overdue due to life stuff and general COVID malaise (sorry Philip!). I will let y'all know when it's posted. Hope this helps in the meantime!
(@eagle3333 hope you and your partner have been well!)
Sabre DAC's definitely have the ir admirers and detractors. I have the Mirus Pro which bucks the trend and has a lovely, full bodied, 'analogue' presentation. I A/B'd it with the Dave which sounded a bit thin by comparison. Always a bit of a hidden gem, sadly the makers have recently left the building, which is a great loss.
Hope the 'life stuff' is under control. The bug issue is 'tedious'. Hopefully we're all permitted to be here for each other in such extraordinary times..
Ah that's too bad to hear about Resonessence. It did seem like the writing was on the wall when the website changed suddenly. Spent a bunch of time with the Mirus Pro and a prototype amp at a show with one of the Resonessence engineers (really nice guy), loved the sound. My favorite DACs at the show were the Mirus Pro, Merging+Player and MSB Reference. The first 2 are both Sabre of course and were the only ones I heard that had completely natural highs, vs. the slightly artificial quality that I hear from others, including the Zena to a small extent.
Hi Taww,Hello all - I haven't read through the latest flurry of posts in detail, but @_Alchemist_ I have some experience with many of the questions you raised so I'll throw in my $.02.
Totally agree with @eagle3333 that Essence is an altogether different level of transparency over Diablo 300, but this will probably make the Essence more sensitive to the rest of the reproduction chain, recording quality, your room and tastes, etc. Also I will caution that it is so neutral that if you are expecting the trademark Gryphon "dark chocolate" richness, you may be slightly disappointed. By my best assessment it is really very close to DEAD neutral, and as such is less tonally warm than the Diablo 300 (though simultaneously sweeter and less harsh/more effortless at volume). And while @eagle3333 has gotten the best bass ever from his Mojo speakers, on my Audiovectors I think the Diablo 300 has a more powerful bottom end. The Essence bass is extraordinary in quality but not as gut-punching, and on the SR 6 it is a bit light vs. the Pass XA30.5 or a Class D amp I am currently auditioning (ICEdge 1200AS2). Listening to something like Billie Eilish, again with the caveat that this is in my room and system, the Class D amp does better the Essence in sheer visceral punch. Pretty much everything else goes to the Essence as expected, including dynamics despite it being a "50 watt" amp vs. the Class D's 600W+ rating. (It helps that the Audiovectors are 92dB efficient.)
Given above and the big price jump, I would definitely try to do some further research before pulling the trigger on the Essence over the Diablo for a speaker like the Magico A3 which is on the lean and precise side already. I actually know someone who has the A3 and just got the Diablo after trying many different separates (last one was a Krell amp with ARC pre) as well as Audiovector, Focal and other speakers. If you like I can ask him how he's liking the Diablo.
With those caveats noted, I can definitely confirm that the Essence amp is an exquisite piece that will likely get you as close to the music as anything you can buy anywhere near the price. It has that immediate, tactile quality that some of the best megabuck systems I've heard sometimes achieve. The last time I heard resolution like this was in a decked-out MSB Reference + Magico M3 system - yes, the DAC was vastly superior to mine but I think the Essence part of the chain was on par in resolution. Ears I trust tell me the Essence reveals some details that no other Gryphon can, even Mephisto. And it does this without ever sounding the least bit clinical. (Make sure you give it a good power cord though!)
Re: the Zena DAC module, I'm a bit torn as it's obviously "very nice kit" as the Brits like to say and you can clearly hear the quality of the Gryphon implementation - battery-buffered USB supply, Class A analog stages, etc. - but there's just something about most Sabre DACs that doesn't quite click for me. It's a very good match to the preamp and a good choice if you want to set it and forget it, but I do still prefer my PS Audio DirectStream DAC by a hair for most recordings, just to give you a sense of the performance level (obviously there are even better DACs than the DirectStream). Sure, I would take the Zena over things like Benchmark, Mytek, Aurender around the $2-4k price point. I think the RME ADI-2 DAC FS comes pretty close for a lot less money, and I would definitely take, say, a Merging (yes I know it's Sabre but I love it) or MSB or Chord DAVE over it. (I have no experience with the NOS DACs like Lampizator, Holo that are all the rage.) So I think it just depends on how crazy a level of refinement you're looking for.
I have a review of all this coming soon on the blog, much overdue due to life stuff and general COVID malaise (sorry Philip!). I will let y'all know when it's posted. Hope this helps in the meantime!
(@eagle3333 hope you and your partner have been well!)
Sorry for the late reply, this week has been hectic and for some reason I didn't get post notifications.
Thank you for your very valuable input. Every thing you say makes a lot of sense and resonates with me.
I want to give you a bit of context into my reasoning behind my choices for the system I am planning.
First, my current system. I bought this apartment about 15 years ago and that's also when I started looking for a system for the place.
For me, hifi is a little bit like wine, it is binary. It's either good or it's not. Either it's working or it's not and then you have levels of "goodness" - this has been my experience. I listened to a lot of systems in a lot of places but very rarely did I encounter a system I liked regardless of price.
I then found a dealer with whom we shared similar tastes and I managed to assemble a reasonably priced system that was punching way above its price category based around class D amplification. My system is not perfect, but it's producing a very fast, dynamic, accurate and 3d sound.
It is fine for 80% of the music. For the 20% like piano, orchestra, live music, it is not performing well.
I wanted to upgrade it or change it over the years, but I lived abroad and traveled a lot for most of the time making it difficult.
Then when I had the time, it was money issues and hifi couldn't be a priority.
As I traveled, I also took the chance to listen to several systems in shops as I could. Same story again, it didn't matter the price of the system, I didn't like what I was hearing. There was always something missing. Even recently, I listened to a 6 digits system with all the hype brands and it was not working at all. Where I live is a no man's land for HIFI and additionally, with the COVID situation, it makes it difficult to travel.
Even then, it's even more difficult to be able to audition the exact combination that I want.
The only system I found good in the last years was a system based with an aurender as a source, a meitner ma-1 dac and a gryphon diablo 300 powering a pair of french speakers. This combo did the trick.
Now regarding my speaker choice...I will post pictures of my room and you will understand that my choices are limited.
Possibly the wise choice would be bookshelves but I've always found them to be lacking something. Presence and body are the first things that come to mind. Second point is aesthetics. I just like floor-standing better.
Regarding space, I cannot put speakers that are too deep, as you can see, I simply dont have the space for it.
I need a speaker that performs in a compact package. I also need something well engineered and built and good looking.
I'm imagining that the current of the Essence would drive very well the modern drivers of the A3.
There are others speakers that I like more but cannot accommodate (Vimberg Mino).
So my reasoning was that since I like the Gryphon Diablo, the Essence would be an upgrade from it, providing plenty of current and possibly class A warmth into possibly cold and analytical Magico's.
As for the source, the one I'm looking at is the new Aurender N20. I think I don't take too many risks with this one.
When it comes to a DAC, my thinking for the module is mostly for simplicity. One less box, less cables, one less parameter in the equation not to worry about. However you confirmed my feelings that a carefully selected external DAC would better it. I was looking at the MSB discrete Dac and I liked it but it would probably mean another 15k minium in price delta (with cables etc...). Another option I also looked at is the DCS bartok. Streamer + Dac, would kill two birds with one stone but I haven't been able to listen to it.
In the end, what I want, is a simple system giving me speed, dynamics, 3D, powerful bass, sweet highs and that sounds natural.
The problem with most hifi systems is that they sound like hifi systems and not natural. It seems brands try to make a hifi sounds but forget about realism and what real music sounds like.
Thanks for this, I will look into it. The R3 are similar in size to what I have now. I just saw that they can offer piano finish which would be nice.
Hi @_Alchemist_ - your tastes sound very similar to mine. I agree many systems are more “hifi” than music. My wife is a professional oboist and I play the violin and still perform in orchestra (well, until COVID). So we need a stereo that sounds like real instruments. I have a very good class D amp in for review right now that is quite musical and enjoyable with acoustic music, but it doesn’t quite have that last degree of naturalness of great class A amps. Based on your comments I do think Gryphon may be a good choice. Pass Labs is also excellent though maybe not as good a value outside the US. Accuphase is another warmer sounding brand though I found the integrated I heard lacking a bit of resolution vs Gryphon and Pass. Dartzeel and Ayre also come to mind as having great resolution but they don’t have the same kind of body and tonal density of Pass and Gryphon in my experience.
Looking at your space, I think Audiovector R3 Arreté will be a very strong contender. It will do great in the tighter spacing but also has a very big sound for a speaker of its size. With an amp like Diablo the dynamics are stunning. I think Essence will sound amazing with R3 but I haven’t tried the R3 in my system, and the Essence separates are a lot more money. I believe the CEO of Audiovector personally uses Diablo 300 at home so you can’t go too wrong!
I agree many systems are more “hifi” than music. My wife is a professional oboist and I play the violin and still perform in orchestra (well, until COVID). So we need a stereo that sounds like real instruments. I have a very good class D amp in for review right now that is quite musical and enjoyable with acoustic music, but it doesn’t quite have that last degree of naturalness of great class A amps. Based on your comments I do think Gryphon may be a good choice. Pass Labs is also excellent though maybe not as good a value outside the US. Accuphase is another warmer sounding brand though I found the integrated I heard lacking a bit of resolution vs Gryphon and Pass. Dartzeel and Ayre also come to mind as having great resolution but they don’t have the same kind of body and tonal density of Pass and Gryphon in my experience.Looking at your space, I think Audiovector R3 Arreté will be a very strong contender. It will do great in the tighter spacing but also has a very big sound for a speaker of its size. With an amp like Diablo the dynamics are stunning. I think Essence will sound amazing with R3 but I haven’t tried the R3 in my system, and the Essence separates are a lot more money. I believe the CEO of Audiovector personally uses Diablo 300 at home so you can’t go too wrong!
Thanks Taww,Hi @_Alchemist_ - your tastes sound very similar to mine.
Looking at your space, I think Audiovector R3 Arreté will be a very strong contender. It will do great in the tighter spacing but also has a very big sound for a speaker of its size. With an amp like Diablo the dynamics are stunning. I think Essence will sound amazing with R3 but I haven’t tried the R3 in my system, and the Essence separates are a lot more money. I believe the CEO of Audiovector personally uses Diablo 300 at home so you can’t go too wrong!
I appreciate your advice. It's funny, I just saw a video on youtube where the CEO is presenting the R3 with essence in the background.
I'm thinking about getting in touch with them to see if I could visit them for a demo.
Hello taww,Hello all - I haven't read through the latest flurry of posts in detail, but @_Alchemist_ I have some experience with many of the questions you raised so I'll throw in my $.02.
Totally agree with @eagle3333 that Essence is an altogether different level of transparency over Diablo 300, but this will probably make the Essence more sensitive to the rest of the reproduction chain, recording quality, your room and tastes, etc. Also I will caution that it is so neutral that if you are expecting the trademark Gryphon "dark chocolate" richness, you may be slightly disappointed. By my best assessment it is really very close to DEAD neutral, and as such is less tonally warm than the Diablo 300 (though simultaneously sweeter and less harsh/more effortless at volume). And while @eagle3333 has gotten the best bass ever from his Mojo speakers, on my Audiovectors I think the Diablo 300 has a more powerful bottom end. The Essence bass is extraordinary in quality but not as gut-punching, and on the SR 6 it is a bit light vs. the Pass XA30.5 or a Class D amp I am currently auditioning (ICEdge 1200AS2). Listening to something like Billie Eilish, again with the caveat that this is in my room and system, the Class D amp does better the Essence in sheer visceral punch. Pretty much everything else goes to the Essence as expected, including dynamics despite it being a "50 watt" amp vs. the Class D's 600W+ rating. (It helps that the Audiovectors are 92dB efficient.)
Given above and the big price jump, I would definitely try to do some further research before pulling the trigger on the Essence over the Diablo for a speaker like the Magico A3 which is on the lean and precise side already. I actually know someone who has the A3 and just got the Diablo after trying many different separates (last one was a Krell amp with ARC pre) as well as Audiovector, Focal and other speakers. If you like I can ask him how he's liking the Diablo.
With those caveats noted, I can definitely confirm that the Essence amp is an exquisite piece that will likely get you as close to the music as anything you can buy anywhere near the price. It has that immediate, tactile quality that some of the best megabuck systems I've heard sometimes achieve. The last time I heard resolution like this was in a decked-out MSB Reference + Magico M3 system - yes, the DAC was vastly superior to mine but I think the Essence part of the chain was on par in resolution. Ears I trust tell me the Essence reveals some details that no other Gryphon can, even Mephisto. And it does this without ever sounding the least bit clinical. (Make sure you give it a good power cord though!)
Re: the Zena DAC module, I'm a bit torn as it's obviously "very nice kit" as the Brits like to say and you can clearly hear the quality of the Gryphon implementation - battery-buffered USB supply, Class A analog stages, etc. - but there's just something about most Sabre DACs that doesn't quite click for me. It's a very good match to the preamp and a good choice if you want to set it and forget it, but I do still prefer my PS Audio DirectStream DAC by a hair for most recordings, just to give you a sense of the performance level (obviously there are even better DACs than the DirectStream). Sure, I would take the Zena over things like Benchmark, Mytek, Aurender around the $2-4k price point. I think the RME ADI-2 DAC FS comes pretty close for a lot less money, and I would definitely take, say, a Merging (yes I know it's Sabre but I love it) or MSB or Chord DAVE over it. (I have no experience with the NOS DACs like Lampizator, Holo that are all the rage.) So I think it just depends on how crazy a level of refinement you're looking for.
I have a review of all this coming soon on the blog, much overdue due to life stuff and general COVID malaise (sorry Philip!). I will let y'all know when it's posted. Hope this helps in the meantime!
(@eagle3333 hope you and your partner have been well!)
As a current Diablo 300 owner, your Essence commentary is very interesting. Question: Are your impressions of the Essence sound gleaned from experience with the Essence amp + Essence pre or some other combination? I ask because I read somewhere where the poster felt as you did that the Essence amp was quite neutral sounding, but that in combination with the Essence pre, had a warmer, richer aspect reminiscent of the Diablo.
If I'm correct he tried the preamp + amp but using another Dac - check post #36 of this thread
I am always interested in reading posts by musicians, particularly professional musicians, about their impressions of equipment/sound reproduction. Tonal density is very much one of the things I like most about Gryphon (and also Zanden and now Robert Koda). Resolution of the upper Gryphons as well though, most likely unlike professional musicians, I am not as zeroed in on the last word in detail.Hi @_Alchemist_ - your tastes sound very similar to mine.
Looking at your space, I think Audiovector R3 Arreté will be a very strong contender. It will do great in the tighter spacing but also has a very big sound for a speaker of its size. With an amp like Diablo the dynamics are stunning. I think Essence will sound amazing with R3 but I haven’t tried the R3 in my system, and the Essence separates are a lot more money. I believe the CEO of Audiovector personally uses Diablo 300 at home so you can’t go too wrong!
Thanks for taking the time to post and look forward to reading more.
Hi @GSOphile - yes this is with the combo of Essence pre + stereo amp. I have listened to the Essence pre with different amps (Pass XA30.5, Valvet A4 Mk. II) and of the two components I would say the pre leans a bit more towards the Gryphon character (warm, open, dynamic) whereas the amp feels very neutral, but in a musical as opposed to clinical way. I can't say for sure how it compares with Diablo as I haven't had them in the same system and room, but interpolating from what I heard and what others have said about the Diablo (which is extremely consistent from person to person, a rarity in this hobby!) I'd venture the Diablo leans a hair warmer and more forward than the Essence combo. Essence has sweeter, more transparent highs and relatively lighter (but still powerful) bass.
I really just need to get my initial review published on the blog which will explain all this in more detail... a little preoccupied right now here in the States...
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I just received my demo Essence Stereo amp and right out of the wooden crate the immediacy and attack of this amp is amazing! Gotta love Gryphon.
I have chill bumps listening to Derrin Nauendorf's live at the boardwalk.
I have chill bumps listening to Derrin Nauendorf's live at the boardwalk.
I am currently using the Audionet Stern preamp while my demo Gryphon Zena is on loan to a customer.
Dear Scott
How is the synergy between Vivid & Gryphon ?
Can you say how is the sound of the new Essence line (particularly amplification, versus previous generation of Gryphon amplification) ?
I have good feedbacks about Constellation + Vivid ; but no idea about Gryphon + Vivid ...
Curious to know, because i'm a big fan of Vivid Giyas (and even the new Kaya models)
David
It is a perfect pairing. Gryphon with its super organic sound and firm bass grip plays the Vivids(G1, Spririt and Kaya 45) to perfection.Dear Scott
How is the synergy between Vivid & Gryphon ?
Can you say how is the sound of the new Essence line (particularly amplification, versus previous generation of Gryphon amplification) ?
I have good feedbacks about Constellation + Vivid ; but no idea about Gryphon + Vivid ...
Curious to know, because i'm a big fan of Vivid Giyas (and even the new Kaya models)
David
The new Essence amp seems to me to be a miniMephisto. I will confirm this once I get my Mephisto. But so far the Essence amp is driving the Vivid G1's effortlessly.
Dear David,Dear Scott
How is the synergy between Vivid & Gryphon ?
Can you say how is the sound of the new Essence line (particularly amplification, versus previous generation of Gryphon amplification) ?
I have good feedbacks about Constellation + Vivid ; but no idea about Gryphon + Vivid ...
Curious to know, because i'm a big fan of Vivid Giyas (and even the new Kaya models)
David
I am a Vivid fan too, and I recently bought the Essence combo for my two setups. My main system, (which is also a home theater with Vivid only in an Atmos configuration) consists of Giya G2 as main speakers. The office system consists of Giya G4. I had Luxman 900u pre/power before, and Essence is the first Gryphon I have listened to in my home.
Initially I found the Essence sound to be on the warm side compared to Luxman 900u. I have actually always found Luxman to sound on the warm side of “neutral” (whatever that is), so it took me some days to adjust to my dealers broken in demo set. But the Gryphon class A tonality grew on me, and after a while I found the Essence tonality to be wonderfully saturated. It was a bit like going from a normal HD to a full 4K HDR image with deeper colors and wider color gamut.
The Essence throws a BIG and holographic soundstage with my Giya G2, and the dynamics, detail, and the way the music just flows from speakers is truly addictive! To my ears, the combination of the lightning fast and natural sounding Giya and the dense and warm tone of the Gryphon is really great. The Giya will not hold a tiny bit back of all the details, control, and dynamic slam that the Essence has to offer.
My office is a lot smaller room, so I don’t get the same big soundstage with the G4, which in addition is used in a sort of near field setup. For this reason I initially thought the Essence would be overkill, so I borrowed a Diablo 300. There is no doubt that it deserves the praise of being one of the coolest integrated amps around. BUT I immediately missed the Essence sound, and I knew very quickly that I had to have it with the G4 too.
I have so far only listened to the Kaya line with various class D amplification. I haven’t been impressed so far. But if a Gryphon Essence can’t make them sing, I don’t know what can..
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