HDMI cable question

[NorthStar]

This just came out few hours ago this afternoon: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/301-a...-need-upgrade-my-hdmi-cable.html#post47254465

 

[JackD201]

..you certainly did your research Bob...thank you. Replacing the cable is not an option..

You can't pull a new cable through using the old one? Just curious.

 

[NorthStar]

You can't pull a new cable through using the old one? Just curious.

:b

 

[GaryProtein]

You can't pull a new cable through using the old one? Just curious.

That depends on how long the cable is, corners it may have turned, staples used to secure the old cable to the studs, etc.

 

[LL21]

Hey Northstar,

We have our Oppo connected to an HDMI converter that converts to CAT5 cable...goes into the jack in the wall...all the way downstairs to the main 'switchboard'...which then runs all the way back upstairs to the jack by the projector which has its own HDMI converter from CAT5 back into HDMI. The signal just went out and no amount of off/on/unplugging has helped.

It could be a fluke and the engineer is due to come out on Friday. While he is here, do you think doing a direct 33 feet long HDMI run from the player straight to the projector is preferable as a more stable solution?

There are probably at least 2-3 occasions per movie when the video cuts out and then 6 seconds later comes back on again. During this time, the audio gets much louder...and as soon as the video comes back, the audio gets back to normal levels again...so its almost like the Oppo is struggling to push both signals out (digital out for audio) and video out via HDMI. But that is a totally unknowledgeable person guessing.

Thanks for any advice!


w

If your new front projector is 1080p (lo-res), your old HDMI cable will do (most likely).

But with a new UHD TV or front projector (4K), you need @ minimum a HDMI High Speed Cable (and with version 1.3 or 1.4 there is still no guaranty, if not high speed). Best is to get a HDMI high speed cable...one not too old.

And! Depending on your UHD TV or 4K front projector, the length of the HDMI cable, even with a 4K HDMI high speed cable, it could hit a bottleneck, and not working. For long runs (30-60+ feet) you can get an active (power booster) HDMI cable: • http://www.hdmi.org/installers/longcablelengths.aspx

• https://turbofuture.com/computers/do-i-need-hdmi-cable-4k-hdmi-20-guide
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

** If watching 4K Blu-rays and/or true 4K video content from some TV/Internet service providers on a true 4K TV or screen ? High Speed HDMI cable.
_______

*** The Epson PC 6040UB is NOT a TRUE UHD (4K) front projector. It supports a HDMI 4K connection, but doesn't project true 4K images.
• http://www.soundandvision.com/category/projector-reviews

The true native 4K front projectors that I am aware off cost considerably more than $4,000 (MSRP). Sony has one for $25,000+ (MSRP).
Other Sony, JVC, Epson, ...less expensive 4K projectors upscale to 4K, and are NOT NATIVE 4K.
• http://4k.com/projector/

I'm waiting for a true native 4K front projector for $5,000 or less. Perhaps by the year 2020.
_______

? http://hometheaterreview.com/the-state-of-4k-front-projection/

 

[amirm]

Hey Northstar,

We have our Oppo connected to an HDMI converter that converts to CAT5 cable...goes into the jack in the wall...all the way downstairs to the main 'switchboard'...which then runs all the way back upstairs to the jack by the projector which has its own HDMI converter from CAT5 back into HDMI. The signal just went out and no amount of off/on/unplugging has helped.

It could be a fluke and the engineer is due to come out on Friday. While he is here, do you think doing a direct 33 feet long HDMI run from the player straight to the projector is preferable as a more stable solution?

There are probably at least 2-3 occasions per movie when the video cuts out and then 6 seconds later comes back on again. During this time, the audio gets much louder...and as soon as the video comes back, the audio gets back to normal levels again...so its almost like the Oppo is struggling to push both signals out (digital out for audio) and video out via HDMI. But that is a totally unknowledgeable person guessing.

Thanks for any advice!


w

Those cat5 adapters are notorious for creating these problems. There are tons of them with many China-special versions that are just not designed to work well. Even the ones that work are at the mercy of the vagaries of (faulty) implementation at either end (i.e. TV and source). Let the engineer troubleshoot it. Likely he will swap it out for another brand. A direct feed of 33 feet should work with HDMI but again, there are vagaries that may make it not.

Note that your cat5 solution most likely doesn't support 4K if that is of any interest.

 

[LL21]

Those cat5 adapters are notorious for creating these problems. There are tons of them with many China-special versions that are just not designed to work well. Even the ones that work are at the mercy of the vagaries of (faulty) implementation at either end (i.e. TV and source). Let the engineer troubleshoot it. Likely he will swap it out for another brand. A direct feed of 33 feet should work with HDMI but again, there are vagaries that may make it not.

Note that your cat5 solution most likely doesn't support 4K if that is of any interest.

Thank you! We will see what he says on Friday...i have asked him to bring a long HDMI run to test the direct route...if it works, we will get a good quality white one and put it around the edges of the mouldings to hide it.

 

[NorthStar]

Hey Bob,

We have our Oppo connected to an HDMI converter that converts to CAT5 cable...goes into the jack in the wall...all the way downstairs to the main 'switchboard'...which then runs all the way back upstairs to the jack by the projector which has its own HDMI converter from CAT5 back into HDMI. The signal just went out and no amount of off/on/unplugging has helped.

It could be a fluke and the engineer is due to come out on Friday. While he is here, do you think doing a direct 33 feet long HDMI run from the player straight to the projector is preferable as a more stable solution?

There are probably at least 2-3 occasions per movie when the video cuts out and then 6 seconds later comes back on again. During this time, the audio gets much louder...and as soon as the video comes back, the audio gets back to normal levels again...so its almost like the Oppo is struggling to push both signals out (digital out for audio) and video out via HDMI.

But that is a totally unknowledgeable person guessing. Thanks for any advice!

Lloyd, show that post you just wrote above to your "engineer" cable guy. He should be able to accommodate you perfectly.

* Bonus: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-blu-ray-players/2676801-official-oppo-udp-203-owner-s-thread.html
______

I have an Oppo BR player, BDP-103; it has two HDMI Outputs...one goes directly to my TV (video - HDMI 1), and the other to my pre/pro (audio - HDMI 2).
I don't know which Oppo model you have, and you have a front projector with longer HDMI runs. For some longer runs some people have to use an active HDMI cable.

• http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/cables/redmere-active-hdmi-cables-technology/510
• http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10255

 

[LL21]

Thank you, Northstar! Will look into Redmere Active HDMI cables for 30 feet.

 

[NorthStar]

Amir's earlier post is also informative:

"Those cat5 adapters are notorious for creating these problems. There are tons of them with many China-special versions that are just not designed to work well. Even the ones that work are at the mercy of the vagaries of (faulty) implementation at either end (i.e. TV and source). Let the engineer troubleshoot it. Likely he will swap it out for another brand. A direct feed of 33 feet should work with HDMI but again, there are vagaries that may make it not.

- Note that your cat5 solution most likely doesn't support 4K if that is of any interest."
______

If you succeed in resolving all your HDMI connection issues; I want to be the first one to know.
If you don't, you'll have to be more specific: Oppo model, projector brand and model, HDMI cable(s) brand and model.
Then I can post it in the best dedicated forum @ AVS and get the solution from some of the excellent experts on this subject.
______

But those two quotes from you are very revealing of your issues:

1. "We have our Oppo connected to an HDMI converter that converts to CAT5 cable...goes into the jack in the wall...all the way downstairs to the main 'switchboard'...which then runs all the way back upstairs to the jack by the projector which has its own HDMI converter from CAT5 back into HDMI. The signal just went out and no amount of off/on/unplugging has helped."

2. "There are probably at least 2-3 occasions per movie when the video cuts out and then 6 seconds later comes back on again. During this time, the audio gets much louder...and as soon as the video comes back, the audio gets back to normal levels again...so its almost like the Oppo is struggling to push both signals out (digital out for audio) and video out via HDMI."

And your question:

"Do you think doing a direct 33 feet long HDMI run from the player straight to the projector is preferable as a more stable solution?"

Yes. And the other HDMI output from your Oppo BR player goes to your pre/pro (or AV receiver) for the audio.

• Oppo BR Player | Dual HDMI Output

If HDMI1 is connected to a display and HDMI2 is connected to an AVR, the Split A/V mode should be selected.
- HDMI1 is the primary video port and HDMI2 is the primary audio port.

• Oppo BR Player | Settings

 

[LL21]

Amir's earlier post is also informative:

"Those cat5 adapters are notorious for creating these problems. There are tons of them with many China-special versions that are just not designed to work well. Even the ones that work are at the mercy of the vagaries of (faulty) implementation at either end (i.e. TV and source). Let the engineer troubleshoot it. Likely he will swap it out for another brand. A direct feed of 33 feet should work with HDMI but again, there are vagaries that may make it not.

- Note that your cat5 solution most likely doesn't support 4K if that is of any interest."
______

If you succeed in resolving all your HDMI connection issues; I want to be the first one to know.
If you don't, you'll have to be more specific: Oppo model, projector brand and model, HDMI cable(s) brand and model.
Then I can post it in the best dedicated forum @ AVS and get the solution from some of the excellent experts on this subject.
______

But those two quotes from you are very revealing of your issues:

1. "We have our Oppo connected to an HDMI converter that converts to CAT5 cable...goes into the jack in the wall...all the way downstairs to the main 'switchboard'...which then runs all the way back upstairs to the jack by the projector which has its own HDMI converter from CAT5 back into HDMI. The signal just went out and no amount of off/on/unplugging has helped."

2. "There are probably at least 2-3 occasions per movie when the video cuts out and then 6 seconds later comes back on again. During this time, the audio gets much louder...and as soon as the video comes back, the audio gets back to normal levels again...so its almost like the Oppo is struggling to push both signals out (digital out for audio) and video out via HDMI."

And your question:

"Do you think doing a direct 33 feet long HDMI run from the player straight to the projector is preferable as a more stable solution?"

Yes. And the other HDMI output from your Oppo BR player goes to your pre/pro (or AV receiver) for the audio.

• Oppo BR Player | Dual HDMI Output

If HDMI1 is connected to a display and HDMI2 is connected to an AVR, the Split A/V mode should be selected.
- HDMI1 is the primary video port and HDMI2 is the primary audio port.

• Oppo BR Player | Settings

Thank you! I am going to speak with the engineer about a 33' HDMI cable...and the Oppo actually has a digital out for audio (RCA)...which i then take straight into the Zanden DAC BNC input.

 

[LL21]

Update:

The HDMI/CAT5 converters were not working. The engineer said both baluns and long HDMI cables should both work, but the longer HDMI cable is more reliable since it does not rely on going down to the central relay downstairs.

NEW QUESTION: WHAT 35 FOOT WHITE HDMI High speed cable do you recommend for 4K video? Thank you!

 

[NorthStar]

Update:

Lloyd, I previously mentioned the Monoprice "Active" RedMere HDMI cables for long runs: Please forgive me and simply forget it; they aren't working fine in all setups, from further search. They were recommended in the past but with 4K now you want the Cabernet Ultra or Luxe Series.


NEW QUESTION: WHAT 35 FOOT WHITE HDMI High speed cable do you recommend for 4K video?

Now, what you are looking for is a certified 4K High-Speed HDMI cable, with this sticker:

Some Monoprice HDMI cables are certified with that seal. ...And also from Vanco and Blue Jeans Cable. Mediabridge was also mentioned...AVS.
• http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/premium-hdmi-cable.htm

The premium certified HDMI cables from these companies are restricted to 20 feet runs: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=16118
For longer runs (35 feet), they don't have that certification anymore: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=12736
And: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024019&p_id=13758&seq=1&format=2

Bonus: http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...can-actually-pass-hdmi-20#yuZhoXwy4TQm7sSH.97
_____

I am still investigating on 35 feet (white) 4K High-Speed certified HDMI cables for front projectors.
It seems that after more than thirteen years since HDMI was introduced to the public (2003) we are still navigating inside a freak horror show movie! Radically.

If I find what you're looking for I'll let you know. I'm sure there must be some premium High-Speed HDMI cables in the 35-55 feet range that works perfectly with 4K front projectors and 4K video material... It has to, or no one would buy 4K projectors.

 

[LL21]

Thank you! Yes, i had come across the same info on Redmere after doing some homework yesterday, and really appreciate your update! Do you think Audioquest Pearl 10m (33feet) is worth the 'ridiculous' cost? It seems over 15 feet, and it is much more important to get right.

 

[LL21]

What does this mean from Audioquest's website...specifically regarding 10m cables (which we need)?

http://www.audioquest.com/hdmi/pearl
"HIGH SPEED DATA CAPACITY: All AudioQuest HDMI cables up to 8 meters meet or exceed the 18 Gbps maximum data rate for HDMI and are approved High Speed with Ethernet cables. This means that all AudioQuest cables up to 8 meters are capable of transmitting 100% of the data required for all of HDMI’s current audio/video features including multichannel high-resolution audio, 1080p and 4K video, and 3D video from Blu-ray. All AQ HDMI cables will deliver 100% of the data required for 120Hz/240Hz/600Hz displays.



ETHERNET AND AUDIO RETURN CHANNEL ENABLED: All AudioQuest HDMI cables up to 10 meters are rated High Speed with Ethernet. From 12 meters to 20 meters AudioQuest HDMI cables are Standard Speed with Ethernet.

DIRECTIONALITY: All audio cables are directional. The correct direction is determined by listening to every batch of metal conductors used in every AudioQuest audio cable. All signal conductors controlled for digital-audio direction in AudioQuest HDMI cables, and care is even taken to run the conductors used in the Audio Return Channel in the opposite direction to ensure the best performance for that application. Arrows are clearly marked on the connectors to ensure superior sound quality."

 

[LL21]

Any thoughts on this one?

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=13758

says it will run 18GB/sec and 4HD up to 50 feet?

 

[NorthStar]

Any thoughts on this one?

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=13758

says it will run 18GB/sec and 4HD up to 50 feet?

YES! I just came back from AVS and asked Dave, and he said that it's a good one (Luxe Series): • http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024019&p_id=13758&seq=1&format=2
And this less expensive one too (Cabernet Ultra - he's using a 35-foot run in his own setup): • http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=12736

Those should work Lloyd, and the Luxe Series is the closest to white color and it looks high-end too; plus it is ridiculously/deliciously inexpensive (less than fifty bucks)! Don't buy anything more expensive because Dave said that you don't have any guarantee that they'll work. Dave is an AVS friend from way back.

That's it man, mission accomplished. Just keep in touch to confirm the splendid performance when you'll connect it. :b
I'll do the same when upgrading to 4K all the way.
_______

P.S. The Luxe Series (and the Cabernet Ultra) is a directional cable, so make sure you follow the arrow (Source end and TV end).
? Read this: http://hometheaterreview.com/are-active-hdmi-cables-right-for-you/ :b
_______

The Luxe Series CL3 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable is designed to meet or exceed the highest standards of performance and safety for HDMI cables. It uses an active chipset to individually regenerate and balance the three video signal elements, giving it the ability to transmit signals at speeds up to 18Gbps*. This enables it to support all of the features specified in the latest HDMI specification, including 4K video at 60Hz* and 3D video. The CL3 fire safety rating means that the cable jacket has been treated with a fire-retardant, which ensures that it meets fire safety standards for use in and through the walls of residential class buildings. Backed by Monoprice's Lifetime Warranty, the Luxe Series CL3 High Speed HDMI Cable is the ultimate HDMI cable for home theater installations.

Features
The Luxe Series High Speed HDMI® Cables are perfect for connecting the latest high-resolution HDMI devices, such as AppleTV®, Roku®, Blu-ray Disc™ Players, and the PlayStation® 4 and Xbox One™ gaming consoles. These cables support the following HDMI features:

• 4K@60Hz (3840x2160@60Hz) resolution*
• 1080p FHD resolution and 3D video
• 18Gbps Bandwidth*
• Deep Color up to 16-bits per channel (48-bits total), including x.v.Color™
• Multichannel audio, including DTS-HD Master Audio™ and Dolby TrueHD™
• HDMI Ethernet Channel and Audio Return Channel features

Luxe Series CL3 High Speed HDMI Cable
* The 4K@60Hz maximum resolution and 18Gbps maximum bandwidth is applicable for cables up to 50 feet in length.

 

[NorthStar]

Lloyd, if the Luxe Series doesn't do the trick, here's what Dave told me:

"Just get the Celerity optical HDMI cable then. However do NOT get the wall plates that go with it.
Using the wall plates will degrade the signal to the point of not being able to push 4K/60/4:4:4 through.
I would advise going a little longer than he needs to, so you have a little wiggle room and future proof if you move the pj or get a different one which needs to have a new location. You said 35', so I would go at least 40', maybe even 50', up to you.
Be prepared, $350 +tax/shipping for the cable alone. If that doesn't break the bank, then I wouldn't mess with Mono active cables.
I THINK the Celerity cable works with any projector with the proper adapter that comes with it (?), but DO YOUR HOMEWORK before ordering.
My Epson actually has a specific connection port for and optical HDMI input, but perhaps your friends pj doesn't.

PS. Cabernet and Luxe both use Redmere technology that has the chip built into the cable connectors.
They are basically the same cable but the Cabernet is rated CL2 in-wall and Luxe is CL3 in-wall for shielding the cable from electrical currents and whatnot. I actually bought the Cabernet a couple years ago before the Luxe was even an option.
It's nice and flexible so the Luxe is probably a little less flexible with more shielding."

• http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...-udp-203-owner-s-thread-121.html#post49242153

The thread is quite informative, on all fronts. And from roughly page 115 till now, lots of info on HDMI cables for compatibility between the Oppo 4K BR player, a 4K front projector (or 4K TV), and a 4K pre/pro (or 4K AV receiver).
That thread has to be the fastest thread ever! Just look @ the date on the first post from page one (December 12, 2016 - less than two weeks ago).
And it just happens that the subject (Oppo 203) is right one of my interests. So the HDMI cables are of supreme importance with this new 4K BR player. Without the proper cables you won't get the proper picture and sound that this new player has to offer.

 

[LL21]

Hi Northstar,

Sorry to bother you...how about this one? Its got 713 Amazon rankings (623 5-star, 71 4-star), is totally white...and is 35 bucks for a 10m run.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1T39SA8AUFT6J

- GENUINE 24 AWG gauge cable for ZERO-LOSS HD performance over distance
- HDMI High-Speed with Ethernet and Audio return - Full feature 3D - 1080p - 4K UHD (2160p/30hz) - ( v1.4 Ethernet Channel )
- Neet custom design Heavy-Duty housing with strain relief. High-spec 24k Gold-plated connectors. Extra heavy-duty Oxygen-Free Copper conductors.
- Manufactured by Sony Green Partner. RoHS compliant. HDCP compliant. Specialist customer support.
- Neet® Specialist customer support...apparently, they are a family owned business who operate exclusively thru Amazon and their customer service is very good
- LIFETIME CABLE WARRANTY

 

[jfrech]

Hi Lloyd,

I haven't read this whole thread...how important is this cable? Feeding a main tv for all to view? I use Transparent Hi Perf HDMI. The picture is visibly better. Even my wife said did you buy a new tv?!? I have a 50ft run to my projector in my listening room. As well as a few 1-2m runs for the other tv's in the house. You can also buy active versions which may help for your 4k requirement.

I will say, from my experience, you get what you pay for. Not saying these are a "good buy" but you'll be happy with their performance.

http://store.transparentcable.com/hdmi-cables/high-performance/active-hdmi/

+FEATURES
Certified High Speed HDMI compliant.
Outstanding performance up to 65 feet.
Supports uncompressed 1080p 60Hz video.
Supports 3D Video, 4K x 2K resolutions and Deep Color.
Supports all HD lossless audio formats.
Data transfer up to 18 Gbit/sec to support future formats.
Includes a special mounting kit that provides a stable, reliable connection at both ends of the cable where it plugs into your components. Kit has 2 mounting brackets, all necessary hardware, and is easy to install.