Head direct-out and after-market playback electronics

[christensenleif@msn.com]

most enlightening thread in months imo
so jumping to outboard external repro and record electronics from the "top hifi shelf", might get you worse off than onboard std e.g A80 electronics to start with....
at least I guess all was matched to each other from Studer ....
but I heard somewhere that the std 15ips heads are a compromise between 15 and 30ips and actually have ideal speed of 22ips? true?
best
Leif

 

[dminches]

My guess is that the average person spending $5k to $15k on an external preamp is having someone who knows what they are doing make sure that the reproduce head and the preamp are properly matched. I worked with John French and Nick Doshi on my setup. They worked together to ensure that the head, cabling and preamp were all working together and calibrated appropriately.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

might be true, but there´s a lot offered out there, that´s just marketed as plug&play.....
best
Leif

 

[Bruce B]

most enlightening thread in months imo
so jumping to outboard external repro and record electronics from the "top hifi shelf", might get you worse off than onboard std e.g A80 electronics to start with....
at least I guess all was matched to each other from Studer ....
but I heard somewhere that the std 15ips heads are a compromise between 15 and 30ips and actually have ideal speed of 22ips? true?
best
Leif

Yes the optimum speed as observed by McKnight was 22ips.

 

[microstrip]

Yes the optimum speed as observed by McKnight was 22ips.

I am not sure any more where I read it - probably in the Tapeproject forum section. Some one brought reel machines using synchronous motors from Europe to a US studio for a recording project and noticed that they sounded much better there - less noise and better bass. Due to the 50Hz / 60Hz the machines were running at 18 ips!

 

[Ron Resnick]

I did this some time ago.... using freq. sweeps for measuring and testing outboard tape stages vs. stock electronics. Thought I had posted graphs somewhere. I'll have to look.

Dear Bruce,

It would be great if you could find those measurements! I'm sure a lot of tape people here would be very curious to see those results!

 

[Scar972]

Fred, thank you for sharing your expertise. Can you please elaborate on the time base distortion (FM and AM haze) originating from the transport and headblock.
Anthony

 

[Fred Thal]

Can you please elaborate on the time base distortion (FM and AM haze) originating from the transport and headblock.

You can read about this topic in the threads:

Do different tape transports sound different?

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?22018-Do-different-tape-transports-sound-different

and

What is scrape flutter?

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23810-What-is-scrape-flutter

 

[Scar972]

Thank you for the links.

Best,
Anthony

 

[Fred Thal]

. . . I'm sure a lot of tape people here would be very curious to see those results!

Ron, at ATAE, we have examined some of the after-market tape playback electronics (aka tape stages) that are currently popular with tape hobbyists.

Yet because we also manufacture and sell this type of product, I will assert that it's not for ATAE to be publishing the results we have compiled on the performance of competitor's products in our test lab.

What has been badly needed (for many, many years now) is for a qualified, impartial equipment reviewer to perform their own testing on these purportedly "audiophile" tape stages.

John Atkinson of Stereophile comes first to mind, but I have no idea if he has any interest in analog tape today.

Absent any such qualified, impartial testing results being published, I fear that in far too many cases, tape hobbyists are simply accepting the testimony of some who report big improvements in sound quality obtained by hacking into the repro head wiring and connecting up this or that brand of after-market tape playback electronics.

The first problem in this approach is that the people are not taking careful measurements of the the playback response of their machine’s stock playback electronics before they start in on a modification path.

The second problem with these crude "head direct out" modifications is that you might be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Here the baby is the head and its associated loading network, usually a simple passive RC network.

Studer machine owners could study the schematics of a Studer repro head first stage, to see this network. Keep in mind that the loading network component values may need to be changed with any change of head inductance, a phenomenon that will occur with head re-contouring, aka head re-lapping. Any change to the head cable must also be factored in.

For those interested, there are useful similarities and analogies to tape head loading to be found in the subject of phono cartridge loading. I see that Ralph Karsten has recently commented on phono cartridge loading in another thread here on WBF.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14815-Best-phono-stage/page32

Warning: huge thread and the 90/10 rule applies.

 

[c1ferrari]

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14815-Best-phono-stage/page32

Warning: huge thread and the 90/10 rule applies.

Would you describe the 90/10 rule

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

90% BS
10% useful facts ?

 

[c1ferrari]

Hehe

 

[DexterMiller]

An (easier) alternative solution lurking out there -though unknown to most- would just be to get any one of the following three vintage prosumer tube machines and restore it oneself:

1. Berlant Concertone 20.
2. Magnecord 1028.
3. Tapesonic 70A.

These are the ONLY U.S. BUILT 10 1/2" reel decks which were sold to the *public* (late-'50s/early-'60s) designed with: direct drive transports, stereo half-track Nortronics heads (the leading quality aftermarket supplier of replacements before the era of Saki and Flux) and, as for the Berlant and Tapesonic, utilizing DUAL MONO rec/play (tube) preamps in separate enclosures. The Magnecord model, by the way, even is better built than a Revox F36 (the category it would've been classed with).

It was entirely the norm for American brand machines of that era to house the transport separately from the electronics; as well as have: the head leads wired to phono jacks...so there was already a built-in provision for adding an outboard preamplifier. Almost all the tube equipment had a "TAPE HEAD" low-level input inverse of the RIAA curve input for such applications.

One, if they were inclined, could even create a one-off High End "Frankendeck" with a Japanese unit by, for example: tearing the transport from a Teac 7030 (their t-o-t-l 2T 7 1/2, 15 "radio station" model of the early-'70s) and...wiring the heads to a 1961 PILOT 216-A tube rec/play preamplifier (with dual, old Weston-style meters and a gorgeous gold-plated brushed front panel!).

 

[musicmanbob]

A few years ago, it appeared Reel to Reel Tape machines and newly produced tapes was all the rage. Now, when I read the audio magazines I don't read much about them. Does anyone have ideas why the downturn and what happened to this awesome area of musical interest? Thanks for your response.

 

[dminches]

A few years ago, it appeared Reel to Reel machines and 1/4 track tapes was all the rage. Now, when I read the audio magazines I don't read much about them. Does anyone have ideas happened to this awesome area of interest? Thanks for your response.

I don't recall that at all. There has been 1 new 15 ips deck available in the past 10+ years. If there is a rage it is a very quiet one.

 

[musicmanbob]

Sorry I was not clear dminches. There was a number of reel to reel tape folk who was buying and refurbishing, Ampex, Concertone, Magnacord, Technics and other tape decks. As a matter of fact, I purchased Teac 32-2B and finally, a Tascam 42B. I then had a local tech here in Georgia develop and build a tape head pre-amp for my Tascam. The combination is lovely. I purchased reel to reel tapes from Dr. Pong which were all outstanding. I note you have a nice system as well. At any rate, my impression is, there was a down-turn in this musical area. Thanks for your response.
bob

 

[Mike Lavigne]

relatively lots more reel to reel talk/activity on Audionirvana, in balance. WBF is much more vinyl centric.

Audionirvana.org

plenty of it here too, but more spread out with generally more overall activity, so tape talk is more challenging to find. at Audionirvana it's a constant part of the daily talk.

the pace of info on new tape deck designs is slow; the Munich Show is coming up so i expect that will result in some more information getting out. but it's not like there are dozens of efforts underway. but lots of new people making tapes and selling them. so tape in general continues on an upswing but it's not mainstream at this point for sure. i don't see any evidence of tape interest slowing down.

 

[dminches]

Sorry I was not clear dminches. There was a number of reel to reel tape folk who was buying and refurbishing, Ampex, Concertone, Magnacord, Technics and other tape decks. As a matter of fact, I purchased Teac 32-2B and finally, a Tascam 42B. I then had a local tech here in Georgia develop and build a tape head pre-amp for my Tascam. The combination is lovely. I purchased reel to reel tapes from Dr. Pong which were all outstanding. I note you have a nice system as well. At any rate, my impression is, there was a down-turn in this musical area. Thanks for your response.
bob

Bob, there is definitely still a lot of talk about reel but it is in a very small circle, relatively speaking. Mike is right that over at audionirvana there is more reel talk and, of course, over at tapeheads.net. I think the interest has kept up for a good number of years. There is just a limit to how big it can get with the scarcity of new machines and the expense of music on reel.

 

[Skylab]

Way, way more new tape options now than a couple years ago. There are now 3 makers of new production blank tape. An actual new production R2R deck is now available for purchase. Restorers of vintage decks have crazy long wait times.

I’d say, while R2R will always be a niche - it’s a pretty healthy niche at the moment.