Not my glass of wine. But, I would love to demo horns that don't actually sound like horns. Most Berning amps go to people with horn speakers.
Help Refine this system, please!
- Thread starter audiopie
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Mike,
Thanks for your thoughtful input. The room is a problem but I can't do anything about it for about 2 years. It may be that I have to stick with what I have until then, but I want to explore the options now as it will take a long time to go out and demo many of the products being recommended, and I will demo many of them.
So, are you saying that you are getting the rich tonal quality of tubes with the DarTZeel amps? What speakers are you using?
How would I test the grounding? I do have a star ground box with everything plugged into it prior to the PS20.
what the dart amps do is not really added richness in terms of coloration, more a matter of allowing the fullness of music to come through. the music is complete, and relatively grain-less compared to other solid state.......and a "continuousness" if you will. you do get tonal density and rich harmonics when they are on the recording. it might help to read the last paragraph of this Fremer review for his way of saying it.
Boulder Amplifiers 2150 monoblock power amplifier Page 2
www.stereophile.com
my amps are the new version of Fremer's darts referred to in that review. he now also has my same newer version. darTZeel has a minimalist signal path, with zero global feedback. you hear the music unfettered; not constricted and squeezed down.
here is my system;
Mike Lavigne's System | Virtual Listening Room
mikelavigne's listening room featuring Evolution Acoustics MM7's, darTZeel NHB-468, darTZeel NHB-18NS, Evolution Acoustics 7.5 meter 'Zeel', MSB Technology Select II with dual power supplies and 33 Femto clock, MSB Pro USB, Gobel LaCorde Statement USB cable, Taiko Audio Extreme Music server...
I was thinking of the sort of work that looks at your home electrical infrastructure. Maybe its good. Maybe not. This could mean having a new ground rod installed, maybe a subpanel for the audio, maybe there is noise from the refer or dimmers that could be isolated...lots of maybe. Given the cost of a loom of any high-end cables giving your house electrical a basic look over and tune up can be quite trivial cost wise.
Oh and if the speakers become the target; in addition to higher efficiency ypu might also research 16 ohm options. See @Atmasphere many and very useful comments on this topic.
I have a client using Berning with full range cones. Sounds pretty great.
I don't mean to put you on the spot but why would you say "not my glass of wine" about the horns referenced?
With Extreme + Pacific there is no where to go but down on digital, so there is nothing to do there.
I am very sensitive to that sonic sense of "sterility," so I know I would find myself listening to music less and less if I were listening to Tidal + Boulder + Nordost. To my ears this combination would not achieve the "rich tonal color" you seek. I understand why your system presently is not satisfying to you.
I totally respect the contrary preference. One audiophile's "sterile and bright" is another audiophile's "clear glass of water."
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Could you please specify which coloration you hear? To me it's just generally bright and a bit bleached out, but I don't hear a particularly horny coloration.
Great music though.
Great components, but are you sure of this value? The Tidal Contriva G2 are considered tube friendly and have powerful neodymium magnets, I would expect them to be more sensitive.
lol good one Be carefull what you say on this forum , horns can be a rather touchy subject
Fwiw first thing : i d try a different pre amp , Boulder can be a bit sterile .
I probably sound like a broken clock but since you like tubes CAT legend is a great pre
I probably sound like a broken clock but since you like tubes CAT legend is a great pre
Hello,
You are likely overwhelmed with information and opinion at this point but I will offer a little more.
Great job seeking out an expert to help dial in your speakers. If you change your amp you will most likely need to re-set the speakers. Especially true if you go from tube to SS.
I would get a big SS amp and see what that does in terms of driving your speakers. This will answer the question if some of the issues are due to a lack of power to drive your speakers. Since you want a rich tone I would suggest Gryphon.
On the Lampi…as you know it brings a lot of richness to the table and offers a lot of flexibility in sound depending on tube choice. However, it is not the king of imaging and separation. Images are larger and more diffuse through the Pacific than say the MSB or Mola or several other choices.
On the subject of imaging...room reflections play a very important role. early reflections will damage imaging and can damage timbre. Some of this depends on the speakers off axis response. It will depend on how close the speakers are to the boundary. The exciting news is that you are planning on doing something room related which will hopefully address these issues.
You are likely overwhelmed with information and opinion at this point but I will offer a little more.
Great job seeking out an expert to help dial in your speakers. If you change your amp you will most likely need to re-set the speakers. Especially true if you go from tube to SS.
I would get a big SS amp and see what that does in terms of driving your speakers. This will answer the question if some of the issues are due to a lack of power to drive your speakers. Since you want a rich tone I would suggest Gryphon.
On the Lampi…as you know it brings a lot of richness to the table and offers a lot of flexibility in sound depending on tube choice. However, it is not the king of imaging and separation. Images are larger and more diffuse through the Pacific than say the MSB or Mola or several other choices.
On the subject of imaging...room reflections play a very important role. early reflections will damage imaging and can damage timbre. Some of this depends on the speakers off axis response. It will depend on how close the speakers are to the boundary. The exciting news is that you are planning on doing something room related which will hopefully address these issues.
I have no dog in the speaker hunt. I have enjoyed greatly tagging along with KeithR over the last several years, hearing, among other speakers, Rockport Altair II, Sonus Faber, Tannoy Westminster RG, YG Sonja 2.2, YG Hailey 2, YG XV Jr., Wilson Alexia II, Wilson Alexx, Wilson XVX, Stenheim.
We audiophiles often make putting a system together very complicated. It does not have to be that way.
For example, I have said for a few years now that I think one could buy the Rockport Lyra and the Absolare Hybrid amp, add ancillaries, and live happily every after. No fuss, no muss, no equipment revolving door (just a very big initial big expenditure). I still feel that is an example of a "one and done" loudspeaker/amp pairing.
After hearing the Fyne F1-12 several times now in KeithR's system, I feel similarly about the F1-12. While we have not heard a 75 watt or so tube amp on the F1-12 I am willing to bet all comers that I personally would find something like the ARC REF75SE to be a perfect match with the F1-12. I think a combination like that is something someone can buy once, forget about, and then spend the rest of his/her life enjoying the music.
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Audiopie, somehow I look at your collection of fantastic audio...and I hate to see you break it up into a protracted game of Tetris...constantly flipping, substituting, re-shaping a system of already great components.
The issues you identify do not pinpoint a particular 100% dead-certain weakness...but I do look at your amp/speaker combination and wonder whether you might try 2 very simple options FIRST just to see if this inter-link is where you wish to focus in the chain:
1. Try a Class A beast in your existing system. Gryphon comes to mind as another member said
2.Try a more efficient speaker with your existing system. Goebel Noblesse at 95db 4ohms? Rockport Lyra seems intuitively like a great sound here....but I dont know if (even at 90db efficiency) you are going to be able to really test drive them to their fullest with the Bernings.
The issues you identify do not pinpoint a particular 100% dead-certain weakness...but I do look at your amp/speaker combination and wonder whether you might try 2 very simple options FIRST just to see if this inter-link is where you wish to focus in the chain:
1. Try a Class A beast in your existing system. Gryphon comes to mind as another member said
2.Try a more efficient speaker with your existing system. Goebel Noblesse at 95db 4ohms? Rockport Lyra seems intuitively like a great sound here....but I dont know if (even at 90db efficiency) you are going to be able to really test drive them to their fullest with the Bernings.
Maybe KeithR can chime in here. He ultimately had to give up pairing low efficiency/very hard to drive spkrs w any number of amps that fell short of iron grip capabilities.
Maybe the issue here is similar.
Maybe the issue here is similar.
That may be worth a try.
Possibly, perhaps, just maybe?
No chance.
I might put the Berning on my 92 dB sensitive, 8 Ohm two-way monitors (monitors are usually much easier to drive), but that's about it. Horns would work, if you can find the right ones.
More importantly, let's hope he has ears to hear, eh?
I'll bet dollars-to-donuts his primary performance bottleneck is incoming electrical. It most always is for everybody anyway but I'm guessing especially in this case.
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