Even a thick loosely woven rug with a thick wool felt underpad is only going to effectively absorb high frequencies as the rug and underpad combined won't be significantly thicker than an inch. You want a 4-6" depth of fibrous broadband absorption or a diffusor effective down to 200Hz or so to fully knock down a primary reflection- regardless of whether it's wall, ceiling, or floor based.Or just put a rug on the floor and eliminate any floor reflections.
Help with floor bounce diffuser
- Thread starter sbnx
- Start date
For those that are interested, here is the patent for the Acoustic Grove System products (AGS).
AGS Patent
This DIY link indicates that the Sylvain product uses a combination of 32, 45, and 60 mm diameter dowels (which is very close to the OD of 1" (33.4mm), 1.25" (42.16mm) and 2" (60.32mm) Schedule 40 PVC pipe).
DIY Link
Here is DIY build link.
DIY Build Link
AGS Patent
This DIY link indicates that the Sylvain product uses a combination of 32, 45, and 60 mm diameter dowels (which is very close to the OD of 1" (33.4mm), 1.25" (42.16mm) and 2" (60.32mm) Schedule 40 PVC pipe).
DIY Link
Here is DIY build link.
DIY Build Link
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FYI - the AGS devices are in use at Divin Lab. What is surprising to me is the comment on the floor diffuser's impact on bass frequencies:
audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com
".....Before the AGS, bass standing waves were primarily tackled by PSI active bass traps which are effective at the corners of the room. When the AGS is put into action, I had to switch off (retire) 6 PSI completely because standing waves of bass are attenuated immediately by the FL-1 placed in front of the 18”bass driver of Divin Majestic, thereby lessening the needs for absorption. (I still retain two PSI at the back of Goebel on both channels.) When the pair of FL-1 are taken away, the clarity of the orchestra collapses and transient responses of bass instruments constipated. Resorting to PSI restores clarity at the expense of free-flowing of energy. Liveliness of music is compromised in general. This is not a small feat because long standing waves of bass are difficult to deal with. The FL-1 is magical and indispensable for serious listener. In fact, bass management has become much easier than anytime ever before....".
Benediction of Acoustics Grove System
Benediction of Acoustics Grove System
audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com
".....Before the AGS, bass standing waves were primarily tackled by PSI active bass traps which are effective at the corners of the room. When the AGS is put into action, I had to switch off (retire) 6 PSI completely because standing waves of bass are attenuated immediately by the FL-1 placed in front of the 18”bass driver of Divin Majestic, thereby lessening the needs for absorption. (I still retain two PSI at the back of Goebel on both channels.) When the pair of FL-1 are taken away, the clarity of the orchestra collapses and transient responses of bass instruments constipated. Resorting to PSI restores clarity at the expense of free-flowing of energy. Liveliness of music is compromised in general. This is not a small feat because long standing waves of bass are difficult to deal with. The FL-1 is magical and indispensable for serious listener. In fact, bass management has become much easier than anytime ever before....".
Was what you heard consistent with the Audio Exotics comments?
Do you have any idea if these floor units would lose their effectiveness in a small listening room (only 5 meters deep by 2.8 meters wide)?
These floor diffusors were part of an ABA test that included the Wellfloat Babel:
Divin Laboratory visited by Stereo Sound of Japan - Page 21
超現實的神曲工作室 Chris的音響系統取向一直給我剛陽的感覺。還以為這是他的本我個性，但今天我改觀了。從前聽到的，是經過取捨的聲音。今天的他已經完全掌握了系統與房間之間的關係，所以能隨意播放任何類型的音樂，可説是剛柔並濟，能文能武。最近和一些師兄討論音響之道。有人會用現場音樂做標準，有人認為要了解錄音背景才是客觀標準，亦有人認為聽得越多細節越好。其實，這些觀點並不存在任何矛盾，可以共存，重點是如何找到平衡點。Hi...
audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com
Carpet only absorbs the treble frequencies, and doesn't do a great job of it.Or just put a rug on the floor and eliminate any floor reflections.
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Interesting stuff - it isn't just these three small standalone diffusors - whole recording studios and listening rooms are done with these devices:FYI - the AGS devices are in use at Divin Lab. What is surprising to me is the comment on the floor diffuser's impact on bass frequencies:
Benediction of Acoustics Grove System
Benediction of Acoustics Grove System
".....Before the AGS, bass standing waves were primarily tackled by PSI active bass traps which are effective at the corners of the room. When the AGS is put into action, I had to switch off (retire) 6 PSI completely because standing waves of bass are attenuated immediately by the FL-1 placed in front of the 18”bass driver of Divin Majestic, thereby lessening the needs for absorption. (I still retain two PSI at the back of Goebel on both channels.) When the pair of FL-1 are taken away, the clarity of the orchestra collapses and transient responses of bass instruments constipated. Resorting to PSI restores clarity at the expense of free-flowing of energy. Liveliness of music is compromised in general. This is not a small feat because long standing waves of bass are difficult to deal with. The FL-1 is magical and indispensable for serious listener. In fact, bass management has become much easier than anytime ever before....".
The Acoustic Grove System - Tokyo Jazz Site | Bars, Cafes, Clubs, Shops, People
For more than half a century, Nihon Onkyo Engineering has designed interior construction for acoustic rooms, recording and broadcast studios, performance halls
tokyojazzsite.com
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
I looked into importing and distributing these products around 3 years ago. They were really not ready for such a thing and the prices by the time I got them here and would have to resell them did not make sense to me. Today it would be worse. Imported room treatments are really difficult to get to market at affordable or even reasonable prices sadly. I have and use Art Novion and its really hard to get what you want it any reasonable time frame and prices are increasing.
Just caught this thread. If anyone can answer, would the alternative of a wooden quadratic diffuser sitting on the floor in the same position as this AGS FL-1, do a similarly effective job?
Or is there something unique in this particular design that makes it superior?
Or is there something unique in this particular design that makes it superior?
Haven't heard the AGS devices but I wouldn't expect them to perform similarly to a conventional quadratic diffuser with regard to floor bounce because:
A quadratic diffuser is 1) flat, 2) solid with no penetration of air/sound, and 3) narrowly tailored for a specific frequency range based on mathematical formulas.
The AGS products on the other hand 1) are made up of cylindrical rods (of different sizes in a specific pattern) which should have broader dispersion patterns than flat rectangular surfaces, 2) allow air/sound to penetrate to the floor/wall and bounce back into/through the device, and 3) are broad band - acting on all frequencies.
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I don't know. I was describing the visual differences between the two. Conventional quadratic diffusers work on mid to upper frequencies and are targeted to specific frequency ranges by varying relative well depth based on math. If you look at the AGS photos at Audio Exotics they are used on the floor in front of very large woofers, behind speakers, and at side wall first reflection points. No reason you shouldn't try a quadratic (or an absorber?) on the floor in front of your speakers. But looking at the design differences between AGS and a quadratic diffuser I would not expect them to perform similarly.
I'm getting my head around this. Because of course the vast majority of wall panels are indeed solid, unlike these. Makes these outliers, somewhat.
So if all my room treatments don't "allow" sound thru to walls and eaves, why would this be the choice for the floor treatment?
With the help of my trusty contact on WBF, will come up with an alternative.
At £1k per spkr for simple slatted wood, there must be cheaper alternatives.
So if all my room treatments don't "allow" sound thru to walls and eaves, why would this be the choice for the floor treatment?
With the help of my trusty contact on WBF, will come up with an alternative.
At £1k per spkr for simple slatted wood, there must be cheaper alternatives.
AGS diffusers are a very different design from "the vast majority of wall panels" (as are the DHDI "Zero Reflecton" panels I use). So I'm not sure what the basis for comparison with conventional diffusers would be. The ZR panels may work for floor bounce since they are full range like the AGS diffusers. I may try that when I have more disposable income. Don't know what else you can do except try different types of panels/devices on the floor. I am currently testing absorbers on the floor in front of my speakers and also plan to try a grid of ASI Sugar Cubes there since they work well on the ceiling.
FYI: https://www.noe.co.jp/en/download/pdf/AGS-English.pdf
There is a similar Japanese product called Floor Base, made by Escart :
Vento フロアベース | エスカート 製品情報
Vento フロアベースは、床の反射やカーペットによる吸収を調整する床用の音響パネルです。フラットなデザインは、生活空間にも違和感なく設置でき確実な効果を発揮します。
www.escart.jp
No direct comparison with AGS performed but my gut feeling is that the latter is superior.
I have been in touch with Nihon Onkyo Engineering and they told me that Axiss Audio USA distributes AGS in the US.
Hi! (I’m new to this group) ; Yes , I emailed Axiss and also Bek Hifi in PA as the Axiss website says Bek carries NOE products .. I’m waiting to hear back .. Im
Interested in the floor bounce diffusers as well. I read through the chain, has anyone in the US bought any of these ?
thank you .
Edit: Bek Hifi owner called me ! Super nice guy, they do carry AGS ! He will be sending me more info! I will look into the towers and the floor diffuser.
I spoke with the owner at Bek Hifi as well and was favorably impressed. There is a guy on YouTube (Sky Nguyen) who appears to live in the Midwest (according to his FB page) and some of his videos show floor diffusers. You might want to reach out to him.
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