How important is the recording??

[garylkoh]

It's all important - the system is only as good as the weakest link. Sometimes it's the recording, other times it's the loudspeaker, another time it could be one of the pieces of electronics or interfacing cable.

Sometimes, with the recording the weak link may be somewhere between the recording session and putting it on a CD or LP. I've got some files from a recording engineer that were supposed to have been given to the CD pressing plant - and then the subsequent CD. Something had definitely been lost in between.

 

[GaryProtein]

Hello and good afternoon, gentlemen. The recording is the very first part of the chain that leads to the end result. Two phrases apply here.

One can't polish a terd by the clean end.
One can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh*t.​

Tom

Agreed.

While better systems can and will have the ability to overcome some of the deficiencies of any recording, any system is ultimately limited to what the recording can offer.
Tom

SOME deficiencies can be overcome by the use of [forgive me ] tone controls, but it has been my experience that the curse of the excellent system is that inferior recordings sound positively terrible because you hear everything that is wrong with it.

 

[garylkoh]

SOME deficiencies can be overcome by the use of [forgive me ] tone controls, but it has been my experience that the curse of the excellent system is that inferior recordings sound positively terrible because you hear everything that is wrong with it.

I agree. On the other hand, with the excellent system, some recordings that I had regarded as inferior rise about the sonic problems to soar on musical merit. On not-so-excellent systems, the sonics mask any musical merit they may have. These include a lot of older 50's recordings that I have and love - in particular blues and classical.

 

[microstrip]

I agree. On the other hand, with the excellent system, some recordings that I had regarded as inferior rise about the sonic problems to soar on musical merit. On not-so-excellent systems, the sonics mask any musical merit they may have. These include a lot of older 50's recordings that I have and love - in particular blues and classical.

Very good point. Many recordings I would hastily dismiss as having inferior sound quality have sounded great in adequate excellent systems. This happens particularly with CD recordings. Some great CD players manage to convey enough information about the real performance to make us excuse for the technical faults. On the wrong system these CD reproducers risk sounding hyper detailed and aggressive.

 

[GaryProtein]

I agree. On the other hand, with the excellent system, some recordings that I had regarded as inferior rise about the sonic problems to soar on musical merit. On not-so-excellent systems, the sonics mask any musical merit they may have. These include a lot of older 50's recordings that I have and love - in particular blues and classical.

That's definitely true about the Furtwangler and Toscanini Beethoven recordings.

Those guys knew how to do Beethoven!

It's a good thing we are able to use DSP to bring back the frequency response and eliminate background noise from those great old performances.

 

[Joe D]

I respectfully disagree...not a Kenny G fan but there are some killer recordings of crappy music from the 80's ala Yaz and Scritti Politi my point being the mix and quality are paramount

 

[LL21]

...with the excellent system, some recordings that I had regarded as inferior rise about the sonic problems to soar on musical merit. On not-so-excellent systems, the sonics mask any musical merit they may have...

That's definitely true about the Furtwangler...Beethoven recordings.

Very good point. Many recordings I would hastily dismiss as having inferior sound quality have sounded great in adequate excellent systems. This happens particularly with CD recordings...On the wrong system these CD reproducers risk sounding hyper detailed and aggressive.

+1. I have become increasingly surprised over the last 3 years how good CDs can really sound. No, I am not going to get into a debate about cd v anything else. But I am going to say of the 1700 CDs I am fortunate to have, I would never have guessed 5 years ago how many of them sound so much better with a nice digital set. And digital reproduction is getting better, even 16/44 playback.

 

[JackD201]

I agree. On the other hand, with the excellent system, some recordings that I had regarded as inferior rise about the sonic problems to soar on musical merit. On not-so-excellent systems, the sonics mask any musical merit they may have. These include a lot of older 50's recordings that I have and love - in particular blues and classical.

I'm glad I'm not the only one whose had recordings previously considered bad actually prove the inadequacies of past systems. I've dismissed some information dense recordings as harsh only to find that some systems can "resolve" through what was a confusing din in most others.

 

[Dre_J]

I'm glad I'm not the only one whose had recordings previously considered bad actually prove the inadequacies of past systems. I've dismissed some information dense recordings as harsh only to find that some systems can "resolve" through what was a confusing din in most others.

Jack, Can you provide a couple of examples of these recordings?

Thanks,
Dre

 

[JackD201]

Masquerade from the Original Cast Recording of Phantom (CD) and the Tea for the Tillerman reissue come immediately to mind.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Garbage In, garbage OUT...right? And that starts with the true source which is the media (CD/LP/SACD/Etc). As such, I try to obtain the best possible version of something that's within my means, but I won't stop from buying the "inferior" or "less desirable" one as I'm truly more interested in the music itself.

And I find myself in complete agreement with this from Tom:

For me, finding the superb and enjoyable performance along with the stellar recording is simply a slice of heaven offered here on Earth by the audio Gods. Unfortunately, they are far and few between but I'll take that slice of heaven anytime of the week and twice on Tuesday. In between those truly exceptional slices of heaven, I'll simply enjoy the music.

 

[garylkoh]

+1. I have become increasingly surprised over the last 3 years how good CDs can really sound. No, I am not going to get into a debate about cd v anything else. But I am going to say of the 1700 CDs I am fortunate to have, I would never have guessed 5 years ago how many of them sound so much better with a nice digital set. And digital reproduction is getting better, even 16/44 playback.

Note that I did not single out the medium. I find that the better the system, the better BOTH formats get.

I second GaryProtein's suggestion of the Toscanini Beethoven box set. I think that this is from the early 60's. His interpretation I think needs to be listened to in the context of a good system to be truly appreciated. Same for Stokovski's interpretations of Stravinsky.

The other great music genre is big band - Les Brown is one of my favourites, and the direct-to-disc is one of the best.

 

[JackD201]

There's something I've come to call spatial congestion. It's the kind of grunginess you might find in the top end when say, loudspeakers are too close together and the events can't be spread out in space and instead filter. It dirties up the transient response. This is similar in many ways to recordings that I had considered to sound hot or worse confused. Played in systems with fast response and loudspeakers set up properly however and the grunge is replaced by spread out individual events. This led me to be a bit more thoughtful about judging recording quality too quickly as well as to check on my set up technique. Frankly it was a bit humbling to realize the recordings weren't screwed up but rather it was me! I'm not saying all bad recordings can be made to sound good, only that it isn't always the case. Chorale crescendos and big band are some of the most notorious in that they are very demanding of a system. The demands on power, precision and projection make them so. I've found however that if you can get these right, everything else is easy sailing.

 

[Dre_J]

Masquerade from the Original Cast Recording of Phantom (CD) and the Tea for the Tillerman reissue come immediately to mind.

Jack,

Thanks for replying.

I agree somewhat on QRP reissue of Tea for the Tillerman. There are no tracing or tracking errors when I play the LP. The transients are very quick and sharp but never edgy or bright. However, the presentation overall reveals the incredible amount of studio processing of some kind done to put this piece together.

Compared to the A&M pressing I have, the QRP pressing is like a microscope on transients and detail. Again, never edgy or bright in any way. I don't particularly care for the presentation as much but there is nothing wrong with the pressing quality. It's just different from the A&M pressing which is a bit fuller (and some could say duller) due to the lack of transient (macro and micro) detail by comparison.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Island pressing to compare it to...

Dre

 

[Ronm1]

For me, finding the superb and enjoyable performance along with the stellar recording is simply a slice of heaven offered here on Earth by the audio Gods. Unfortunately, they are far and few between but I'll take that slice of heaven anytime of the week and twice on Tuesday. In between those truly exceptional slices of heaven, I'll simply enjoy the music.

Tom

So true as I mentioned earlier,when all are aligned,in our hobby it can be quite special.