How satisfied?

[cjfrbw]

Glad to hear from you Ish after so many years. We met when you came to my house once when you were in the Bay Area to hear my little ole system several years ago.

I don't know what satisfied is, because the tweakiness never completely goes away.

Currently, with the newly efficient Bohlender 75 midrange ribbon covering midrange 300Hz to 7kHz and replacing the Analysis Epsilon midrange ribbon, I have a stack of four amps that I use with it: Wavac MD 572@50 watts SET, First Watt M2@25w Class A, Pass VFET clone@20w Class A, and a little flea powered amp that uses 45 or 2A3 tubes single ended for a couple of watts each. Gain is adjusted with a 300b driver stage when desired. Imaging with the 300b driver into the Wavac is cosmic.

They all sound wonderful with their own unique signatures, and I am rotating them all to taste from time to time. The system is so addictive, I'm almost glad I spend a couple of days a week at our Santa Cruz place so I don't become a bleached skeleton sitting in front of it.

 

[five]

I will post it to share the experience. Nice to meet you Kevin. We should listen to each others systems.

That would be great; I'll look forward to it.

Sadly it's going to be some months until my system is "listenable". We are in the midst of what has turned into a major renovation of an older home. There's some space earmarked for a listening room, but because the renovation is waaaay behind schedule I've had to prioritize the rest of house so we can move in as soon as possible. So while a lot of work has been done on the listening room design, it's temporarily on hold.

 

[han_n]

Hi Ish,

Wow, thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive reply.

Honestly, I don't have the knowledge, time and motivation to go the distance you have gone, so I will certainly not dispute any of your findings. As I mentioned earlier, I can "kind of" imagine how your system must sound, and certainly believe that it will be at the very top of what is possible. It also indicates that you are satisfied now, after the long investment of time and money, which is something not everybody can (or want to) achieve in this hobby. (for some, this hobby is about endlessly trying to modify, upgrade, and modify again till the end of days. That -the upgrading/modifying- is their hobby, no no issues with that as well, who am I to dispute...)

Looking at your itemized points, I can say that;
1) I can only appreciate the distance you have gone, and certainly agree that acoustics and room placement are an important part of the overall result.

2) Agreed, and during the 45 years I'm in this hobby, I also quite rarely change brands. In fact, only two brands are providing the main components in my current system.

3) I'm a mechanical engineer, so I can't do much tweaking related to the electronics, hence that way I'm limited to first listening impressions.

4) Most people (including myself) do not have a dedicated room for listening, which means more often than not people are restricted with regard to possible speaker placement. To me that doesn't mean I can't enjoy listening, it just means that I can try to get the maximum within the given circumstances. It doesn't frustrate me either, I realize that there must be other things in live to become frustrated about.

5) It's great if you can do that. That's all I can say about it.

6)

7) Looking forward to that information...

8) That may be perfectly true, however, as mentioned earlier, I simply lack the knowledge, time and the space (room) to come even close to what you have done. From my experience, with the kind of music I was listening to I was happy with the extra slam the Grands provided at that time. Now, that doesn't mean I necessarily doubt that YOUR FR would possibly outperform the Grands. Besides that, it might be a personal preference as well. Not all people like the same food, however good the dishes may be. Finally, please note that I did not try to promote (buying or upgrading to) the Gryphon Pendragon to you, I perfectly realize that you are happy with the FR. That's what counts.
I did say that whoever is in the market for high end amps, cd-transport and dac, you HAVE to include the CH Precision equipment in your search. So that is more a gentle advice to readers of this thread.

I don't consider myself to be an "audiophile", I'm a music lover, always have been, always will be. So I spend my few spare hours listening, often with a glass of wine in hand, and that's it. I'm satisfied with what I have, and don't want to worry too much of what I could possibly have...Any specialist like yourself could possibly squeeze more out of my current system, that's alright to me too..... I'm 62, life is short, so enjoy....

Han.

 

[christoph]

Hi Ish,

Wow, thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive reply.

Honestly, I don't have the knowledge, time and motivation to go the distance you have gone, so I will certainly not dispute any of your findings. As I mentioned earlier, I can "kind of" imagine how your system must sound, and certainly believe that it will be at the very top of what is possible. It also indicates that you are satisfied now, after the long investment of time and money, which is something not everybody can (or want to) achieve in this hobby. (for some, this hobby is about endlessly trying to modify, upgrade, and modify again till the end of days. That -the upgrading/modifying- is their hobby, no no issues with that as well, who am I to dispute...)

Looking at your itemized points, I can say that;
1) I can only appreciate the distance you have gone, and certainly agree that acoustics and room placement are an important part of the overall result.

2) Agreed, and during the 45 years I'm in this hobby, I also quite rarely change brands. In fact, only two brands are providing the main components in my current system.

3) I'm a mechanical engineer, so I can't do much tweaking related to the electronics, hence that way I'm limited to first listening impressions.

4) Most people (including myself) do not have a dedicated room for listening, which means more often than not people are restricted with regard to possible speaker placement. To me that doesn't mean I can't enjoy listening, it just means that I can try to get the maximum within the given circumstances. It doesn't frustrate me either, I realize that there must be other things in live to become frustrated about.

5) It's great if you can do that. That's all I can say about it.

6)

7) Looking forward to that information...

8) That may be perfectly true, however, as mentioned earlier, I simply lack the knowledge, time and the space (room) to come even close to what you have done. From my experience, with the kind of music I was listening to I was happy with the extra slam the Grands provided at that time. Now, that doesn't mean I necessarily doubt that YOUR FR would possibly outperform the Grands. Besides that, it might be a personal preference as well. Not all people like the same food, however good the dishes may be. Finally, please note that I did not try to promote (buying or upgrading to) the Gryphon Pendragon to you, I perfectly realize that you are happy with the FR. That's what counts.
I did say that whoever is in the market for high end amps, cd-transport and dac, you HAVE to include the CH Precision equipment in your search. So that is more a gentle advice to readers of this thread.

I don't consider myself to be an "audiophile", I'm a music lover, always have been, always will be. So I spend my few spare hours listening, often with a glass of wine in hand, and that's it. I'm satisfied with what I have, and don't want to worry too much of what I could possibly have...Any specialist like yourself could possibly squeeze more out of my current system, that's alright to me too..... I'm 62, life is short, so enjoy....

Han.

excellent posting, Han

 

[GallantListener]

Han, different opinions in this hobby are what makes it fun. I value your opinion in the perspective that you bring. Regardless of hardware, I am myself a music lover, like you are, more than the equipment. That is why I am no fan of audiophile CDs or LPs. Most of my software is red book CDs and LPs that have inspiring music.

 

[GallantListener]

Glad to hear from you Ish after so many years. We met when you came to my house once when you were in the Bay Area to hear my little ole system several years ago.

.

Hey bud, how are you? I do recall visiting you. It was fun. I know your audio taste. Hope you improved your subwoofer

 

[cjfrbw]

Hey bud, how are you? I do recall visiting you. It was fun. I know your audio taste. Hope you improved your subwoofer

Got four subwoofers, now. I never recall anybody not liking the bass, but I think different guys have different sensitivities.

Of course, planar bass from a Full Range probably makes just about everything pale in comparison.

 

[bonzo75]

Got four subwoofers, now. I never recall anybody not liking the bass, but I think different guys have different sensitivities.

Of course, planar bass from a Full Range probably makes just about everything pale in comparison.

The full range thread I had started was after listening to Henk's restored full rangers. The bass (mid bass rather) Blew me away. Till then, I had not liked apogees, but then I heard more of Henk's restores... His grands (which originally belonged to Han_n), his scintilla (christoph's) and loved them. The one bass I prefer more is when you have two 15 or 18 inch drivers in a front loaded horn, they are vertical and come at you similarly to a planar bass, firing in front, but with 110 db and flat 8 ohm. They sound equally open and powerful but more nuance and texture as they are accompanied by 20w or under sets. Maybe a bit more power if you like. And less room oriented so you don't have to depend on the front wall and back wave and such to get the bass right.

 

[GallantListener]

Got four subwoofers, now. I never recall anybody not liking the bass, but I think different guys have different sensitivities.

Of course, planar bass from a Full Range probably makes just about everything pale in comparison.

Great!. when I visited you, you were working on it. SO I am glad that it is to your satisfaction now.

 

[cjfrbw]

Bass is a huge audiophile variable. Some like it dry and taut as hot desert wind, with just enough to shade the harmonics. Some like it down and dirty like and old Cerwin Vega on amp overdrive. Some have
"Princess and the Pea" sensitivity to any kind of discontinuity effects between bass and other drivers.

I am not particularly sensitive to driver discontinuities (I am grateful for that). I like enough bass definition to be able to hear all the low frequency octave shifts and glissando with good energy level, and don't mind the bass being a bit mussy. It shakes the room enough without overwhelming the imaging.

That being said, I still miss the upper bass and lower midrange of my old Apogee Stage speakers with the original dual sided mylar bass panels. They were bliss in that department.

 

[NorthStar]

Hi Ish,

Wow, thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive reply.

Honestly, I don't have the knowledge, time and motivation to go the distance you have gone, so I will certainly not dispute any of your findings. As I mentioned earlier, I can "kind of" imagine how your system must sound, and certainly believe that it will be at the very top of what is possible. It also indicates that you are satisfied now, after the long investment of time and money, which is something not everybody can (or want to) achieve in this hobby. (for some, this hobby is about endlessly trying to modify, upgrade, and modify again till the end of days. That -the upgrading/modifying- is their hobby, no no issues with that as well, who am I to dispute...)

Looking at your itemized points, I can say that;
1) I can only appreciate the distance you have gone, and certainly agree that acoustics and room placement are an important part of the overall result.

2) Agreed, and during the 45 years I'm in this hobby, I also quite rarely change brands. In fact, only two brands are providing the main components in my current system.

3) I'm a mechanical engineer, so I can't do much tweaking related to the electronics, hence that way I'm limited to first listening impressions.

4) Most people (including myself) do not have a dedicated room for listening, which means more often than not people are restricted with regard to possible speaker placement. To me that doesn't mean I can't enjoy listening, it just means that I can try to get the maximum within the given circumstances. It doesn't frustrate me either, I realize that there must be other things in live to become frustrated about.

5) It's great if you can do that. That's all I can say about it.

6)

7) Looking forward to that information...

8) That may be perfectly true, however, as mentioned earlier, I simply lack the knowledge, time and the space (room) to come even close to what you have done. From my experience, with the kind of music I was listening to I was happy with the extra slam the Grands provided at that time. Now, that doesn't mean I necessarily doubt that YOUR FR would possibly outperform the Grands. Besides that, it might be a personal preference as well. Not all people like the same food, however good the dishes may be. Finally, please note that I did not try to promote (buying or upgrading to) the Gryphon Pendragon to you, I perfectly realize that you are happy with the FR. That's what counts.
I did say that whoever is in the market for high end amps, cd-transport and dac, you HAVE to include the CH Precision equipment in your search. So that is more a gentle advice to readers of this thread.

I don't consider myself to be an "audiophile", I'm a music lover, always have been, always will be. So I spend my few spare hours listening, often with a glass of wine in hand, and that's it. I'm satisfied with what I have, and don't want to worry too much of what I could possibly have...Any specialist like yourself could possibly squeeze more out of my current system, that's alright to me too..... I'm 62, life is short, so enjoy....

Han.

What's in the void @ number six (6)?

 

[GallantListener]

The full range thread I had started was after listening to Henk's restored full rangers. The bass (mid bass rather) Blew me away. Till then, I had not liked apogees, but then I heard more of Henk's restores... His grands (which originally belonged to Han_n), his scintilla (christoph's) and loved them. The one bass I prefer more is when you have two 15 or 18 inch drivers in a front loaded horn, they are vertical and come at you similarly to a planar bass, firing in front, but with 110 db and flat 8 ohm. They sound equally open and powerful but more nuance and texture as they are accompanied by 20w or under sets. Maybe a bit more power if you like. And less room oriented so you don't have to depend on the front wall and back wave and such to get the bass right.

What's in the void @ number six (6)?

A mystery project! stay tuned, LoL

 

[GallantListener]

Bass is a huge audiophile variable. Some like it dry and taut as hot desert wind, with just enough to shade the harmonics. Some like it down and dirty like and old Cerwin Vega on amp overdrive. Some have
"Princess and the Pea" sensitivity to any kind of discontinuity effects between bass and other drivers.

I am not particularly sensitive to driver discontinuities (I am grateful for that). I like enough bass definition to be able to hear all the low frequency octave shifts and glissando with good energy level, and don't mind the bass being a bit mussy. It shakes the room enough without overwhelming the imaging.

That being said, I still miss the upper bass and lower midrange of my old Apogee Stage speakers with the original dual sided mylar bass panels. They were bliss in that department.

You are a subwoofer collector and despite that I am no fan of them, other than in home theater, I have a pair of REL stadium.
We just cannot avoid them

By the way where is the thread on fullrange that you initiated. I found the following.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...n-apogee-acoustics-re-builder-restorer.21094/

But that was initiated by Ron Rosnik.

I am new to this website -- in fact, haven;t been on any forum for years -- and still trying to familiarize myself with friends and threads.

 

[bonzo75]

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/apogee-full-range.19104/#post-355730

It is an old thread. Many impressions got updated as more speakers and apogees were heard.

 

[GallantListener]

Han and others, I am posting some details of the new room on another thread.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...lso-a-house-almost-diy-way.29361/#post-607033

 

[GallantListener]

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/apogee-full-range.19104/#post-355730

It is an old thread. Many impressions got updated as more speakers and apogees were heard.

I did not read the whole thread but the original post by Ron was very interesting, I am curious about your system. You driving your Apogees FRs with Audio Research amps? And what kind of crossover are you using?

 

[GallantListener]

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/apogee-full-range.19104/#post-355730

It is an old thread. Many impressions got updated as more speakers and apogees were heard.

Sorry, I was referring to another thread. I am still catching up.