" I never lied to you I always told you some version of the truth." Jack Nicholson

andromedaaudio

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Critics aren't soul searching philosophers although they may be seekers and audiophiles at some level. They are marketing politicians, personalities, and entertainers who are created by the markets they dwell in.

Just like leaders in religions, critics MUST subscribe to certain polemic belief systems (even if they don't necessarily believe in them themselves) in order to maintain their positions as commercial high priests, or they won't have product coming through the doors any more and they won't enjoy whatever status their position gives them. So, high end audio is full of convenient superstitions and promulgated belief systems that serve markets as much as sound quality.

The recent silly controversies over 9" and 12" tonearms are a case in point. The error envelope of vinyl playback is so unalterable and huge, any "precision" involving differences is purely moot, yet everybody jumps on the bandwagon with an opinion about these fake precisions.

What is wrong with flavors? Nobody seems to object to them in food. I have may different and enjoyable ways of listening, and I like all of them.

I long ago cashiered the notion of the absolute sound, which is a manipulative construct, and now regard my audio system as a player piano playing indeterminate scrolls, which I want to sound a certain way and as good as possible. If it can make me hallucinate and intensify emotion and some sense of transcendent communication, that is good enough for me.

Audiophiles also have incredibly diverse motives, including prestige, exclusivity, and cost distinction, not to mention endless arrays of obsessive intoxication, not just sound quality, so as usual, one must eventually decide one's own priorities.

Lol this is how it works in the artbusiness also , but not all mags or reviewers are the same , some have more knowledge and are genuine
 

andromedaaudio

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Indeed just like food.
Imagine a (audioworld) without flavours how boring would that be.
I even put low value coils in series in my speakercables, i dont care
If it makes digital sound good, fine with me
 

Al M.

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Al the clarity i’m talking about is extremely natural..beautiful and in some cases awe inspiring. I have come to really appreciate classical music and especially DG recordings...about as perfect as one could ask for. Someone used the descriptor “continueness”, this is a wonderful part of rendering the reproduction of a full orchestra..no limits on size or dimensionality. Clarity is the mother of great sound reproduction,because it brings true realism to the listener.

Understood, Roger, it is what I assumed you meant. Yet because of the trap of false clarity, clarity is no absolute, it needs to be understood in the proper context of naturalness.

False clarity can be the result of over-emphasis on the lower treble, as I mentioned, leading to unnatural 'detail'. It can also be the result of a harmonically emaciated, thinned out presentation, leading to false 'speed'. False speed can also be the result of overdamped bass. If for example stand up bass never sounds 'fat' in your system you may have a problem. Because it can do so live.
 

Al M.

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But l fully agree, in the context of natural timbre, clarity is an excellent indicator of quality of a system and progress with it.
 

andromedaaudio

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All high end products are voiced, one way or the other by the manufacturer this is what determens the brand.
There is a human philosophy behind a design.
One that stood out as having the lowest distortion among Amps, Halcro was dismissed as sounding to steriele lol.
See you can never win with audiophiles.
 

morricab

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Manufacturers have knowledge at least quit a few , what knowledge do most reviewers have ??
And off course a mag is a bit of marketing , they live of advertisements mostly dont they?

Being a critic of sound quality doesn't require any knowledge of how something is designed any more than a movie critic knows how to make a movie or food critic has to be a chef. However, technically gifted critics are generally better at getting to WHY something sounds the way it does. Most engineers in Audio don't hear particularly well I have found out.
 

andromedaaudio

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Lol , yeah right so you re saying even a deaf person can design good audio Gear.
Well apparently it doesn't require much to become a reviewer, if you ve failed at a lot of other jobs you can always become one lol
 

morricab

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Lol , yeah right so you re saying even a deaf person can design good audio Gear.
Well apparently it doesn't require much to become a reviewer, if you ve failed at a lot of other jobs you can always become one lol

Tons of designs are "by the numbers". Measure great sound like crap. What would you call those designers? Deaf is a word that comes to mind...
 

vindixon

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No problem, just ignore it ...

IMHO review readers must understand that the conditions of the listening to establish the scope and limitations of the review.

When J. Valin says "I happen to like this kind of “just the facts, ma’am” honesty, but I’m in the minority." he says it all. But I think that Magico marketing department will not be very pleased to know that their speaker was reviewed by someone that has a very different preference from the majority of audiophiles.

But yes, it was a disappointing review for anyone having read J. Valin nice reviews of the past. He just repeats himself over and over, nothing new and very little substance about the sound of the M3. The good news for MSB fans is that he shows more enthusiasm for the Select than for the Magico's ...

Perhaps we are reacting using our expectations when reading high-end reviews - but TAS calls this article an "Equipment Report", not a review. It looks an "equipment report" is a just a summary of the marketing brochures with a superficial opinion.

I agree, my problem with JV reviews are:

1/ You will have to wait for the next review to find out what are the real flaws of the model being reviewed. So while it all sounds impressive they are better considered as a paid infomercial from the manufacturer and not an objective review.

2/ I also have the impression that I am reading the same review over and over with the only change being that this model has got right what he claimed the last version got right (in the review of a previous product from the same manufacturer).

3/ He reviews from a very limited number of manufactures and then in his show reports pretty much slams everyone else. I understand that objectivity is difficult for all of us but this behavior makes him come across as a shrill for his preferred friends. I don't have Wilson speakers but I have always found him particularly ingenious when attacking this brand with faint praise.
 

ddk

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After reading Mr. Valin again today on the TAS site It
made me question and wonder is this really the condition of the Audio Industry?
Are we at the point that there is no Absolute Sound and its just a free for all with product as to the flavor one likes?
Are reviews therefor totally worthless? or do you just pick the flavor from the reviewer you prefer who agrees with you or the one that validates you opinion and gives the "permission slip?"

If this is the truth then where do we go from here? I ponder this daily. How do we learn and how do we improve without a fixed target?
I know how much hard work and effort many companies put into their products to get closer to the music and I have a hard time wrapping my head around how easily this is dismissed by"flavors"

I just came back from Munich and I will admit it was fun and interesting to see and listen briefly to the amazing gear that was presented there.
I am still a believer in audio as a system and not pieces. Does the system get you closer to the music? Does it create a sensation of disbelief? Does it act as a time machine and transport me to a musical event?
To me its not a flavor!
I searched for a long time to find products I love, products that do this for me. I realize that they are not the only products that can do this or that any one system is perfect but I don't believe that its just any opinion is a version of the truth.

After all my years as a dealer I find it absurd to make declarations about any product in a void yet that happens every day.
i.e. Someone listens to a complete complex system and makes a declaration like
:thats the best ethernet cable I ever heard: yet they have none of the system.

This is not meant as criticism only to start a dialogue from this Forums many experienced listeners

People read reviews for different reasons, from passing time sitting on the can to those with money burning holes in their pockets looking for a reason to spend it. Same goes for reviewers; people with diverse motives and priorities. The long term professionals have established styles know their audiences and cater to them, no reviewer, author, critic, etc. has universal appeal. I'm not making excuses for anyone but high end audio is purely entertainment you don't have to read the views of those you don't find entertaining.

I agree with you that a fixed "Target" at least some of which you defined in words should be the foundation of and even ethos of high-end but IMO defining and effectively communicating it is the duty of the dealer. Many of us are in this role because of passion than financial gain but even with the best intentions the quality and value of that "Target" is pretty much tied to the knowledge and experience of the dealer. We're not all the at the same level nor do we all have the same expertise so even with similarly defined "Target" our destination may be different Norths. Reading your post I can believe that at least conceptually we have a similar ideal "Target" but looking at our approaches, ie products we back it's obvious that our "Targets" will be different even if we use the same vocabulary to define it. How do we reconcile; budget, experience, scruples or flavors, perhaps a combination but for the most part we do allow for this diversity of opinion here why not extend it to the reviewers?

Edit- To clarify I don't mean not to question people or agree with they're saying just that the "Target" is somewhat relative to each one of us.

david
 
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andromedaaudio

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I dont question your honesty/ interests Elliot , but could the constant praising of magico gear by J valin have something to do with it.
I can Imagine it must be a bit frustrating for a dealer / distributor who has a competing brand in his portfolio or shop
 

microstrip

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RogerD

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Understood, Roger, it is what I assumed you meant. Yet because of the trap of false clarity, clarity is no absolute, it needs to be understood in the proper context of naturalness.

False clarity can be the result of over-emphasis on the lower treble, as I mentioned, leading to unnatural 'detail'. It can also be the result of a harmonically emaciated, thinned out presentation, leading to false 'speed'. False speed can also be the result of overdamped bass. If for example stand up bass never sounds 'fat' in your system you may have a problem. Because it can do so live.

But l fully agree, in the context of natural timbre, clarity is an excellent indicator of quality of a system and progress with it.

Al, I wholeheartedly agree. Clarity is a great indication of system audio signal neutrality. For example,playing a Verve recording of Johnny Hartman which was recorded using a Ampex 350 and the bass is full or has a distinct tube signature...wonderful I might add. The bass is not faulty,but as it should sound. In comparison, Diana Krall...Live in Paris, very good recording,but doesn’t have the Ampex sound...both are correct and that’s my target. The target being what’s on the recording, nothing added or subtracted, and genuine clarity as absolute as possible will give you that.
 

NorthStar

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Should a professional audio reviewer be free of any bias, is Jonathan Valin completely unbiased?
He himself knows best. Us the readers we're only in for the ride. If the ride is good we're happy to demo for ourselves the unit and make our own decision.

A reviewer let you do just that. He describes his own ride in his own words.
Words matter, very. Listening matters more.

Music matters.
 

microstrip

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Should a professional audio reviewer be free of any bias, is Jonathan Valin completely unbiased?
He himself knows best. Us the readers we're only in for the ride. If the ride is good we're happy to demo for ourselves the unit and make our own decision.

No reviewer is free of bias, it is why it is important to understand them, their preferences and perspectives. JV is very biased (to be fair, he admits it ...) and it would not be a problem if it was not the case that currently he seems more interested in describing himself than the sound quality of the equipment he reports on.

Johnathan Valin has been writing great reviews for the paid subscription version of TAS magazine for a long time. Unfortunately for him, he will be judged in audio forums mainly for the appetizers that show in the TAS site that usually state "I will have a great deal more to say about the XXX when I review them in an upcoming issue of TAS" in the bottom of the page, just before a short endorsement telling that he already feels he can fully recommend XXX "
 
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andromedaaudio

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What you mean paid version ?
You got to be joking , lol.


Look there can be lots of reasons reviewers write what they write ,. I ll keep it at that
 

microstrip

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What you mean paid version ?
You got to be joking , lol.

Paid subscription surely. The articles in the pdf full magazine are much longer that the freely accessible reports on the TAS site.
 

Al M.

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Paid subscription surely. The articles in the pdf full magazine are much longer that the freely accessible reports on the TAS site.

That may be true of some articles, but it is not the case for all.
 

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