In-wall cable question

[bazelio]

Because I didn't hear that JPS in-wall sounds better than plain copper, I simply assumed it sounds better.

Also I assumed that the JPS cable was some high purity copper cable. I didn't know it was some mystery aluminum alloy. Aluminum in an inferior conductor of electricity compared to copper.

JPS (and others) compensate for resistivity by increasing the wire gauge. The end result is just as suitable in terms conductivity. Now, I'm not saying whether or not JPS in wall wire sounds good because I don't have any experience with it. But their interconnects are excellent and also an aluminum-containing alloy of some sort. Masterbuilt is also a proprietary alloy as well, for what it's worth.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Masterbuilt is also a proprietary alloy as well, for what it's worth.

I'm not skeptical about the concept of an alloy; I'm skeptical about the sonic efficacy of aluminum or aluminum alloy.

 

[PeterA]

Because I didn't hear that JPS in-wall sounds better than plain copper, I simply assumed it sounds better.

Also I assumed that the JPS cable was some high purity copper cable. I didn't know it was some mystery aluminum alloy. Aluminum in an inferior conductor of electricity compared to copper.

I barely research the JPS because I thought it was a standard upgrade recommended by electricians. If I had known it was some mystery aluminum alloy I wouldn't have gone near it.

I owned three dedicated runs of JPS Labs In-Wall wire. I listened to it for years. Then my electrician installed an additional four dedicated runs of standard industrial wire and I did a direct comparison, back and forth using the same IEC connectors directly into the back of my gear, just the different wire.

I was shocked how much more natural/real/believable, just plain better, the standard wire sounded. I then took out all the JPS wire and threw it away. It enhanced detail and frequency extremes, diminishing natural rich tone.

I then experimented with the Furutech IEC connectors and compared them to industrial Hubble outlets with the stock power cords. Same results. The Furutech were removed and given away.

 

[Cellcbern]

Because I didn't hear that JPS in-wall sounds better than plain copper, I simply assumed it sounds better.

Also I assumed that the JPS cable was some high purity copper cable. I didn't know it was some mystery aluminum alloy. Aluminum in an inferior conductor of electricity compared to copper.

I barely research the JPS because I thought it was a standard upgrade recommended by electricians. If I had known it was some mystery aluminum alloy I wouldn't have gone near it.

FYI - Apparently aluminum is one element (along with copper) in their proprietary "composite" conductors, and the top of the line "Aluminata" cables which have been highly regarded for years, use an "aluminum particle shield".

Alumiloy® Proprietary Conductor

High Performance Wire Alumiloy, the registered trademark of the proprietary conductors used in most of JPS Labs finished audio cable designs, consists of ultra-pure metals and other elements in a composite conductor material. Many years of working with such materials led JPS on a path of...

jpslabs.com

Aluminata Series

JPS Labs Aluminata line of reference cables have been sought after for over a decade by the most demanding audiophiles and music lovers for their uncanny ability to convey the life essence of recordings directly to your ears. No harshness, perfect clarity to the source, scary real sonic images...

jpslabs.com

 

[Cellcbern]

FYI - Apparently aluminum is one element (along with copper) in their proprietary "composite" conductors, and the top of the line "Aluminata" cables which have been highly regarded for years, use an "aluminum particle shield".

Alumiloy® Proprietary Conductor

High Performance Wire Alumiloy, the registered trademark of the proprietary conductors used in most of JPS Labs finished audio cable designs, consists of ultra-pure metals and other elements in a composite conductor material. Many years of working with such materials led JPS on a path of...

jpslabs.com

Aluminata Series

JPS Labs Aluminata line of reference cables have been sought after for over a decade by the most demanding audiophiles and music lovers for their uncanny ability to convey the life essence of recordings directly to your ears. No harshness, perfect clarity to the source, scary real sonic images...

jpslabs.com

FYI: https://www.stereophile.com/cables/407jps/index.html

Note that the reviewer used Lamm amplification.

I have not tried them.

 

[Cellcbern]

I owned three dedicated runs of JPS Labs In-Wall wire. I listened to it for years. Then my electrician installed an additional four dedicated runs of standard industrial wire and I did a direct comparison, back and forth using the same IEC connectors directly into the back of my gear, just the different wire.

I was shocked how much more natural/real/believable, just plain better, the standard wire sounded. I then took out all the JPS wire and threw it away. It enhanced detail and frequency extremes, diminishing natural rich tone.

I then experimented with the Furutech IEC connectors and compared them to industrial Hubble outlets with the stock power cords. Same results. The Furutech were removed and given away.

Interesting. I had the exact opposite experience in my previous home, i.e. I had a standard copper 20A dedicated line replaced with the JPS Labs In-Wall cable and the latter resulted in a more resolving and natural sound. I replaced Hubble outlets with Oyaide and this too was an improvement. I did this in part as a test for the benefit of my audiophile club members who did group before and after sighted and blind listening with the concensus being that the JPS/Oyaide combo produced a more realistic and natural sounding system. Currently using the JPS In-Wall wire in my new home/system with good results.

 

[PeterA]

FYI: https://www.stereophile.com/cables/407jps/index.html

Note that the reviewer used Lamm amplification.

I have not tried them.

I kept all seven circuits in place for a while so I could go back and forth by simply plugging power cords into different outlets on the floor with the different wire. They sound very different. Based on listener values, I can see how people will prefer one over the other.

My old dealer recommended the JPS Labs because recording studios use it. I think what matters in this case is that Ron likes it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think what matters in this case is that Ron likes it.

I never wrote that I like it.

I wrote that I regret installing it without conducting the comparison you did. I wrote that absent that direct comparison with my ears I should not have installed it.

I regret assuming that "if it's good enough for recording studios then it must be good enough for me."

 

[PeterA]

I never wrote that I like it.

I wrote that I regret installing it without conducting the comparison you did. I wrote that absent that direct comparison with my ears I should not have installed it.

I regret assuming that "if it's good enough for recording studios then it must be good enough for me."

Somewhere along the process I think I suggested that you not install it in your new construction. You were collecting advice you were getting from different sources regarding your room construction. I assumed that you did like it because it is kind of a standard audio file solution and you like the sound of your system. My mistake. I should not have assumed do you like it. But you do like the sound of your system right?

Do you have an opinion on JPS cable or do you just not know because you have not compared it to anything?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Do you have an opinion on JPS cable or do you just not know because you have not compared it to anything?

I have no opinion on it because I have not compared it subjectively sonically to anything.

 

[Cellcbern]

I have no opinion on it because I have not compared it subjectively sonically to anything.

FYI - anyone interested in comparing different in-wall dedicated line options note that Audience now offers cabling specifically for this purpose:

Audience Hidden Treasure In-Wall AC PowerCable & High Definition Wall Receptacle Review Like a buried treasure that pays huge dividends in musical enjoyment! Review By Rick Becker

Audience Hidden Treasure In-Wall AC PowerCable & High Definition Wall Receptacle Review Like a buried treasure that pays huge dividends in musical enjoyment! Review By Rick Becker of Enjoy the Music.com

www.enjoythemusic.com

 

[Cellcbern]

FYI - anyone interested in comparing different in-wall dedicated line options note that Audience now offers cabling specifically for this purpose:

Audience Hidden Treasure In-Wall AC PowerCable & High Definition Wall Receptacle Review Like a buried treasure that pays huge dividends in musical enjoyment! Review By Rick Becker

Audience Hidden Treasure In-Wall AC PowerCable & High Definition Wall Receptacle Review Like a buried treasure that pays huge dividends in musical enjoyment! Review By Rick Becker of Enjoy the Music.com

www.enjoythemusic.com

By the way, don't know what others' experiences have been, but for me power conditioning/filtration and power cables have made a bigger improvement in sound quality than adding a dedicated line.

 

[Bruce B]

When I was building my studio/listening rooms, Equi=tech told me to use it (JPS In-wall).

I also had "normal" Romex in the room as well and much preferred the JPS. All my cables were JPS Aluminata

 

[novacdjokotoet]

...it probably does sound good, but it's power cable stock... that is, for making power cables for component terminations, based on their info sheet.

So, that would be analogous to taking an extension cord and running it from your panel, through your joists, walls, etc. and to an outlet. Sure, it's an excellent extension cord, but it's not rated for use in wall, as far as I can see.

Many things *can* be done, and if nothing goes wrong, it seems like a good idea. But, wow if something does go wrong...

I use 25mt of solid core OYAIDE EE / F-S2.6 V2 Power cable 102 SSC copper FEP shielded 3x5.3mm². It runs from meter to back of my audio system. A little pricey but very smooth and silky sounding cable with good dynamics.

Hi sir MarkusBarkus and Mtemur, It's me, the Hanoi Vietnam guy who got your advices from the "Dedicated AC Line For Hi-Fi Setup" thread.

I've been using dedicated Gigawatt LC-Y inwall cable for about six month now, with about 1.5ohm grounding resistance.
Since moving from old 20 year-old-apartment with cheap standard inwall cable and common grounding to this new house with these fancy in wall cable, I now understand that the problem with our city's polluted electrical line cannot simply be solved by a nice dedicated line.

Reason I say this is because my system is still unhearable when the grid is not clean (music sounds lifeless, mid gets colder, treble harsher, subbass not dig deep,...) and that means most of the time, so same problem with my old apartment with standard wiring and standard grounding.

But I would say that, the good thing about this gigawatt dedicated line is that it helps dissipate the noise better, compare to the old wiring in my old apartment. And it shows its greatest strength through a piece of equipment that I put in the corner unused in my old place, because I tried and thought it was useless, the LP-11 UPS online with isolation transformer from GE.

Now with the dedicated line and the GE LP-11, the grid gets less dirty, music becomes bearable more often, and when the grid noise gets too bad that even the ups cannot clean up, I switch to its battery mode using lead battery, and the sounds become listenable again.

Althought I am not sure the difference when utilizing this ups online is contributed by the dedicated line or the 1.5 ohm resistance seperated grounding or both. But I know one thing for sure this combo (dedicated line and good grounding) does wonder to reduce the noise, hence the noise is cleaned up better after the ups (compare to the old apartment).

Another experience with clean electricity I got is from the place I work, which is a factory 25km away from Hanoi, but it is actually 25km closer to the Hydroelectricity dam that provides power for the whole north area of our country (the factory is only about 30km away from this dam, Hanoi is 55km away). This factory is located in an industrial zone, the power is 3 phase, and my factory has this transformer built that costs about 50k usd that also does some sort of AC - DC - AC convertion, balanced iso trans (hey, kinda same as my ups online but much much bigger), and compensate power, turning 3 phase power into 1 phase.

The factory only use standard cheap in-wall cable, and about 10ohm of grounding resistance. But I experince clean electric quite often when I am at the factory, and that was during working hour (which means the whole area's industrial machines all working with all the noise get into the grid).
All I have to do is to use a diy electric distributer with emerson AC filter (cost about 100usd) as power source, and the headphones +dac/amp sounds fabulous.
So, If I live in this factory, I might as well not need a dedicated line and good grounding I suppose.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

If I get back to VN I will surely want to hear your system @novacdjokotoet ! I was in Hanoi traveling in 1992. It must be very different now! I visited VN again in 2005, but sadly could not make it up north.

I think many things must negatively affect the power grid, so I'm glad to hear you had some success. Maybe all of the machines in the factory give a good effect on the phase/power factor?

Good Luck with your plan to move into the factory. Anything for good music! ; )

 

[novacdjokotoet]

If I get back to VN I will surely want to hear your system @novacdjokotoet ! I was in Hanoi traveling in 1992. It must be very different now! I visited VN again in 2005, but sadly could not make it up north.

I think many things must negatively affect the power grid, so I'm glad to hear you had some success. Maybe all of the machines in the factory give a good effect on the phase/power factor?

Good Luck with your plan to move into the factory. Anything for good music! ; )

It would be a privilege to have you hearing my modest system sir. But I'm confident that it's quite analog sounding even though it's digital, which is what am striving for in audio.

I'm using hedd type 07 as my main speakers, diy r2r tube nos dac (mini Abbas I guess), pi + digione signature as music server, and some pretty nice headphones (hd650, grado ps500e - actually these two are Merv (Mr. purrr1n - a reputated member in superaudiobestfriend)'s top 5 headphones of all times, yincrow x6 - a 10usd Chi-fi earbud but don't discount this little gem as it is pretty sensitive to good/bad power grid also and yes, quite analog sounding).

You were somewhere in our city when I was born sir. We've come along way from 1992. You should visit us some time. It'll be a treat, also try to come around November sir, that's when our hiend audio show often takes place.

I think all the machines in our factory will negatively impact the grid, as they are heavy industrial ones. But I suspect the reasons why the factory sounds so clean are because
1. It's far from the polluted city grid.
2. It's closer to the power source (the hydro dam).
3. It's 3 phase power grid.
4. Other factories in the zone also have good separate transformers as the one we have.

 

[mtemur]

So, If I live in this factory, I might as well not need a dedicated line and good grounding I suppose.

IME you still need a dedicated line. There is no shortcut in this hobby. I'm sorry.

 

[mtemur]

IME the point here is to use a cable with solid cores. It has to have solid cores for line, neutral and ground. No matter what technology, purity, brand etc it has if it's composed of multi stranded wires, it's not good for the job. It's not fast enough for 10 or 30mt in wall cable but it may be a very good 2mt power cord. I can not emphasize enough the necessity of solid cores. Cables with or without shield, both can be good in different applications as long as they have solid cores.

 

[Cellcbern]

IME the point here is to use a cable with solid cores. It has to have solid cores for line, neutral and ground. No matter what technology, purity, brand etc it has if it's composed of multi stranded wires, it's not good for the job. It's not fast enough for 10 or 30mt in wall cable but it may be a very good 2mt power cord. I can not emphasize enough the necessity of solid cores. Cables with or without shield, both can be good in different applications as long as they have solid cores.

Disagree. I've heard any number of dedicated 20A lines using stranded conductors that sounded great (both the JPS Labs and Audience "Hidden Treasure" wires made specifically for this purpose are stranded). I have heard multiple systems including my own where replacing a solid core copper dedicated line with one of these two stranded cables resulted in a significant increase in sound quality.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have heard multiple systems including my own where replacing a solid core copper dedicated line with one of these two stranded cables resulted in a significant increase in sound quality.

Would you please elaborate on "significant increase in sound quality" when you went from legacy wire to JPS in-wall?