installing 7 Furutech GTX-D NFC (R) outlets this morning

[ayreman]

Wow! I now look forward to Mike's impressions. Such a small thing and such a powerful impact!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Wow! I now look forward to Mike's impressions. Such a small thing and such a powerful impact!

me too! (looking forward to my impressions that is )

I did order them today from Joe.

I love it when you can get net gain in performance. it simply shows how much the power grid is key to so much of the life of reproduced music.

 

[DaveC]

Pretty similar to the impressions I posted earlier... the NCF products don't just do what Furutech claims, they definitely exceeded my expectations.

Everyone who installs these seems to be shocked at what they can do. I think that we just don't realize how much AC power delivery affects our systems until we have a device that mitigates many of these issues we were previously unaware of. Once a system gets to a certain point the only way to recognize issues is to remove them, then by comparison we realize there even was an issue to begin with. It seems obvious that typical receptacles greatly color the sound we are hearing in direct comparison with the NCFs.

 

[Folsom]

The real problem is potentially the awkward shapes of our socket systems, so we have to use special materials to try and reduce the issue.

 

[ayreman]

I have a question to Joe Pittman and DaveC about Furutech FI-52 NCF connector. At Furutech's web site they are positioned as "High End Performance" connectors:
http://www.furutech.com/2016/05/19/13044/
While FI-50 NCF(R) is positioned as their "Ultimate Power Connector":
http://www.furutech.com/2015/11/18/12057/
My question to you both, gentlemen, is what makes FI-50 NCF(R) superior over FI-52 NCF? Is it better design? Better materials? Anything else I'm missing here?

(For clarity: we are not talking about rating difference here. One is 20A while the other is 15A - that's obvious. My question only refers to sonic/quality differences.)

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, if you wanted to float the ground you wouldn't connect it at all. In either case don't do that, and... don't do that.

If you're meaning that the box the receptacle is connected (mounted) to can ground the unit, that's only true if you have metal conduit. In which case you would have an odd problem when using an isolation transformer because the safety ground first goes to the center tap of the transformer, and that is connected to safety earth. Having conduit would create another unnecessary path for more noise. The potential & impedance for the ground is lower at the center tap I believe, so you have a better ground, but it's ready for a lightening strike since it's tied to safety earth. Essentially there's less noise than safety ground may typically have without the balanced transformer setup.

Thank you for your post. i was not suggesting to float the ground. Rather, I am trying to decide whether to keep the outlets grounded only to my chemical ground which will be connected to the isolated ground bus on my service panel, and not, also, to the ground for the service panel itself.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you Dave C, and thank you Mike L for asking Joe, and thank you, Joe, for your answer!

 

[YashN]

Pretty similar to the impressions I posted earlier... the NCF products don't just do what Furutech claims, they definitely exceeded my expectations.

Everyone who installs these seems to be shocked at what they can do. I think that we just don't realize how much AC power delivery affects our systems until we have a device that mitigates many of these issues we were previously unaware of.

I've even plugged my video gear consiting of a 4K UHD Blu-Ray Player, a 4K LCD TV, together with the iMac (it's also plugged into the TV) into my AC Filter box I built for audiophile purposes, and I am getting much, much better Picture Quality as well.

Bought new supplies to build a second box as it will definitely be needed now.

It's like having new gear really.

 

[DaveC]

I've even plugged my video gear consiting of a 4K UHD Blu-Ray Player, a 4K LCD TV, together with the iMac (it's also plugged into the TV) into my AC Filter box I built for audiophile purposes, and I am getting much, much better Picture Quality as well.

Bought new supplies to build a second box as it will definitely be needed now.

It's like having new gear really.

Good to hear. One of my customers tried my power cable with the Furutech FI-50 plugs on his TV and said the picture improved quite a bit... I have my TV plugged into my audio system's power distribution and it does help, but my TV (Panny Plasma) has a non-standard IEC inlet that I haven't bothered to replace so I couldn't try the power cable.


ayreman, the FI-50 and 52 have the same body, just different shaped plug for 15 vs 20A IECs.

 

[Salectric]

I just removed the Teflon gasket from the GTX wall plate on my GTX-D (R) NCF outlet. I have the 105-D NCF cover plate and was a little puzzled by the Teflon gasket since the NCF cover doesn't fit inside the opening on the wall plate. I guess the previous cover was a bit smaller and did fit inside the opening.

In any event, the sound is a little different without the Teflon gasket. There is a bit more weight in the bass and the mids and treble are slightly more refined. Not a huge difference but the changes are there and for the better. The only question in my mind is whether the sonic changes might also be due to a change in the tension of the little bolt holding the cover in place. I didn't tighten it as much when I re-attached the cover plate.

I should also note that my GTX package is new. Although Dave C. cooked it prior to sending it to me, it only has 30 hours of use since I installed it.

 

[Joe Pittman]

I just removed the Teflon gasket from the GTX wall plate on my GTX-D (R) NCF outlet. I have the 105-D NCF cover plate and was a little puzzled by the Teflon gasket since the NCF cover doesn't fit inside the opening on the wall plate. I guess the previous cover was a bit smaller and did fit inside the opening.

In any event, the sound is a little different without the Teflon gasket. There is a bit more weight in the bass and the mids and treble are slightly more refined. Not a huge difference but the changes are there and for the better. The only question in my mind is whether the sonic changes might also be due to a change in the tension of the little bolt holding the cover in place. I didn't tighten it as much when I re-attached the cover plate.

I should also note that my GTX package is new. Although Dave C. cooked it prior to sending it to me, it only has 30 hours of use since I installed it.

The US Furutech Distributor provided the following explanation for the 105-D NCF size difference:

"Furutech did not provide any instructions for the 105-D NCF when used with the GTX Wall Plate in the packaging, so you may have customers ask why the 105-D NCF does not fit snugly in the GTX Wall Frame. There are two reasons why the 105-D NCF has been designed and manufactured slightly larger than the 104D: The first is for improved sonic performance - It should sit almost flush with the top of the GTX Wall Frame and not sit on the base of the frame; it sounds much better this way, and as such, the Teflon sheet like the one in the 104 cover is not needed when fixing the two together (please test). Furutech has made this clear on their website and will in the future include a small note in the GTX wall frame to inform 105-D NCF users of this point. The second reason is that the slightly larger dimensions of the 105-D NCF make it convenient for those users that don’t use the GTX Wall Plate. The larger size of the 105-D NCF will cover most wall conventional “stock” box holes – this was an occasional issue with the 104-D for some users, where the cover was slightly too small to fully cover the existing box."

 

[Salectric]

Interesting!

Joe, can you comment on the sonic advantages of using the aluminum wall plate? Since I bought my GTX outlet, wall plate and cover as a package, I have no idea what each part is contributing to the overall sound. I do know the wall plate is a very solid mounting platform for the outlet and cover, so I won't be surprised if it affects the sound in some way.

 

[Joe Pittman]

Interesting!

Joe, can you comment on the sonic advantages of using the aluminum wall plate? Since I bought my GTX outlet, wall plate and cover as a package, I have no idea what each part is contributing to the overall sound. I do know the wall plate is a very solid mounting platform for the outlet and cover, so I won't be surprised if it affects the sound in some way.

Each different wall construction will have a unique sound. And it's my opinion that the outlets are microphonic, especially to low frequency bass. The GTX Wall Plate helps to provide a sonically neutral mounting surface. Furutech's special finish helps to lower resonance. Aluminum is also good conductor of resonance/vibration and is fast. Ideally we want the mechanical system to damp resonance/vibration quickly. I use the term mechanical grounding to explain the advantages of a rigid mounting system. Hope this helps a little.

 

[DaveC]

I just removed the Teflon gasket from the GTX wall plate on my GTX-D (R) NCF outlet. I have the 105-D NCF cover plate and was a little puzzled by the Teflon gasket since the NCF cover doesn't fit inside the opening on the wall plate. I guess the previous cover was a bit smaller and did fit inside the opening.

In any event, the sound is a little different without the Teflon gasket. There is a bit more weight in the bass and the mids and treble are slightly more refined. Not a huge difference but the changes are there and for the better. The only question in my mind is whether the sonic changes might also be due to a change in the tension of the little bolt holding the cover in place. I didn't tighten it as much when I re-attached the cover plate.

I should also note that my GTX package is new. Although Dave C. cooked it prior to sending it to me, it only has 30 hours of use since I installed it.

The cable cooker reduces burn-in time but won't completely eliminate it. With unburned GTX(R) you get 4+ weeks of unstable sound, it changes from somewhat normal to closed-in and dark sounding, back and forth, and with a sensitive system the changes are obvious and disturbing, to the point I think burn-in is really necessary, or the patience of a saint... Within a week the burned receptacle should stabilize and sound open and extended rather than closed-in/dark.

I would also guess the tension in the cover will have an effect but haven't tested it... it is a relatively easy thing to test, especially with a helper adjusting the screw as the other person listens, so I'll have to experiment with it.

I also installed the GTX in my wall with the plate so I don't have a good handle on what it does vs the receptacle its self. I also use the GTX in my modded SurgeX power distribution systems and I'd say the GTX in the wall that feeds the SurgeX actually makes more of a difference vs the receptacles in the SurgeX. For me, it was a pretty amazing difference... as I've said before...

 

[Joe Pittman]

The only question in my mind is whether the sonic changes might also be due to a change in the tension of the little bolt holding the cover in place. I didn't tighten it as much when I re-attached the cover plate.

Looks like the cover works like Furutech's Axial Locking System (very cool). There will be an ideal screw adjustment for best performance.

The cover is very stiff so don't try to screw it down till it bottoms out, you may crack it. Just as the screw makes contact (not loose), no more than 2.5 turns (900 degrees).

Each screw tension may have a sound characteristic; too little tension and you don't get the benefit, too much tension and again no benefit or negative effect. Meanwhile I am experimenting with my torque screwdriver's micro adjustment capability to find the optimum setting (in my system) and to adjust each cover for consistency. It's like focusing a camera lens.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Looks like the cover works like Furutech's Axial Locking System (very cool). There will be an ideal screw adjustment for best performance. I suspect one easy adjustment process would be to screw down the cover till it bottoms out (makes contact with the receptacle) and then back-off by a turn or so (YMMV). Each screw tension may have a sound characteristic; too little tension and you don't get the benefit, too much tension or bottom-out and again no benefit or negative effect. Meanwhile I am experimenting with my torque screwdriver's micro adjustment capability to find the optimum setting (in my system) and to adjust each cover for consistency. It's like focusing a camera lens.

cool!

hopefully you will break the code by the time my cover plates arrive and will be ready to tune them perfectly.

 

[knghifi]

provisional response;

wow!!

interesting to hear what improving power cords on subwoofers crossed over at around 35hz do for overall coherence and authority. more agile and expressive in the lower registers, overall cleaner and more real. crosses farther over into suspension of disbelief.

more subtle improvements on the vinyl than the digital; which makes sense with the phono stages battery powered. still the vinyl is better. the digital is quite a bit better.

of course; hard to separate and isolate cause and affect when doing more than one power cord upgrade.

these connectors sure look spiffy with the polished stainless steel over carbon fibre/nano crystal. but it's not just a pretty face.

and the proverbial 800 pound gorilla in the room is I have not yet upgraded the plugs for the power cords on the dart mono blocks which typically yield a large share of any power grid related upgrade.

of course; I'm only commenting on what they sound like in my particular system as my first blush perceptions.

I have 6 power cables built with NCF connectors. 2 Nanotec #308, 2 Furutech FP-S55N and 2 Furutech FP-S032N. I compare NCF against F11 connector on the same cable and NCF is a huge improvement, better in every way.

These cables replaced Shunyata Sigma/Alpha, Nordost, HFC, HiDiamond P4 ...

I need several more but unfortunately FP-S55N is no longer available.

 

[Champ04]

I had been toying with the idea of trying some of this NCF gear ever since I first heard about it. Then I ran across this thread and decided to give it a go. But I was conservative about it, replacing the connectors on just my amplifier power cable to start.
Plugged it in last night and WHOA! the descriptions here are not exaggerated.
Just one problem. The descriptions about the drastically swinging break in period is also not exaggerated. Sounds positively threadbare and crappy this morning. Grrr.
I've already decided to go full NCF, from "Romex to Transformer" as it were. But I don't want to go through this break-in period more than once. haha. The rest of the stuff can't get here soon enough!
I guess I'll be catching up on some Netflix the next couple weeks....

 

[DaveC]

I had been toying with the idea of trying some of this NCF gear ever since I first heard about it. Then I ran across this thread and decided to give it a go. But I was conservative about it, replacing the connectors on just my amplifier power cable to start.
Plugged it in last night and WHOA! the descriptions here are not exaggerated.
Just one problem. The descriptions about the drastically swinging break in period is also not exaggerated. Sounds positively threadbare and crappy this morning. Grrr.
I've already decided to go full NCF, from "Romex to Transformer" as it were. But I don't want to go through this break-in period more than once. haha. The rest of the stuff can't get here soon enough!
I guess I'll be catching up on some Netflix the next couple weeks....

Yeah, hopefully powering your amp the burn-in will go a little quicker, but I'd expect around 4 weeks of back-and-forth. For some things burn-in is a big deal, the rhodium plated copper Furutech uses is one of those things. That's why I burn-in everything, it's much better for my customers and keeps me from answering too many emails and phone calls on the subject. As bad as the Furutech AC stuff is, my UPOCC copper litz wire is even worse, although it burns-in much faster.

Good luck, keep in mind I offer free burn-in and shipping.

 

[knghifi]

I had been toying with the idea of trying some of this NCF gear ever since I first heard about it. Then I ran across this thread and decided to give it a go. But I was conservative about it, replacing the connectors on just my amplifier power cable to start.
Plugged it in last night and WHOA! the descriptions here are not exaggerated.
Just one problem. The descriptions about the drastically swinging break in period is also not exaggerated. Sounds positively threadbare and crappy this morning. Grrr.
I've already decided to go full NCF, from "Romex to Transformer" as it were. But I don't want to go through this break-in period more than once. haha. The rest of the stuff can't get here soon enough!
I guess I'll be catching up on some Netflix the next couple weeks....

The Furutech NCF cable need ~200 hours of break-in. I daisy chain the power cables plug into a Weizhi PRS-6 and have a TV, VCR, tuner and old laptop plug into it running 24/7 for 8 days. TV is high duty cycle so draws more current than any audio component.