installing 7 Furutech GTX-D NFC (R) outlets this morning

highstream

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Dave, first my mistake: I mistook you for Mark of Sablon (I'll correct earlier comments in that regard). Your discussion of changing inlets is exactly what he tried to convince me to do (I actually bought a couple and then decided doing those kind of mods was not what I wanted to do, especially given a limited audition period). Look it, it really doesn't matter to me whether you are correct or not. All it counts is my ears. I heard what I heard with rhodium and didn't like it (just as I try to stay away from or minimize silver in my system). I'm not speaking for Alex of WyWires, but apparently he is of a similar opinion.

The irony here is that you built me a copper 5V lead to use between the Hynes SR4 LPS and iFi spidf iPurifier, and I love it. In fact, when the first one wasn't long enough, you rebuilt it and I was (and remain) grateful. Thank you.
 
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DaveC

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Dave, first my mistake: I mistook you for Mark of Sablon (I'll correct earlier comments in that regard if I can) Your discussion of changing inlets is exactly what he tried to convince me to do. (I actually bought a couple and then decided doing those kind of mods was not what I wanted to do). Look it, it really doesn't matter to me whether you are correct or not. All it counts is my ears. I heard what I heard with the Sablons (and others) and didn't like it. I'm not speaking for Alex of WyWires, but apparently he is of a similar opinion.

The irony here is that you built me a copper 5V lead to use between the Hynes SR4 LPS and iFi spidf iPurifier, and I love it. In fact, when the first one wasn't long enough, you rebuilt it and I was (and remain) grateful. Thank you.


Ok, no problem. I don't see that both myself and Mark advising our customers to use matching receptacles and inlets as being a bad thing though. I can assure you our intent is not to sell you more stuff, it's to help you achieve your goals in audio reproduction as best we know how.

The AC and IEC plug are both halves of the same connection, with the other half being the receptacle and IEC inlet. I don't think you can look at these parts in isolation, the audio system is a system and every part matters. The ONLY reason people don't consider the receptacle and IEC inlet is because they are more difficult to remove and replace. but they make as much difference as the plug on the power cable.

Component and home manufacturers don't tend to use the most ideal receptacles and IEC inlets. So when considering spending thousands on ideal power cables, why not also spend a little on the other halves of connection? IEC inlets are about $100 and duplex receptacles just under $300. That's about $200 for each power cable to have a receptacle made with IDENTICAL materials and plating rather than whatever random materials that were likely chosen for their low price rather than their sonic attributes. It wouldn't be difficult to hire a local tech to help... well these days that may not be the case but usually it is.

I also have no doubt you experienced what you did and am not saying you didn't hear what you claim. I'm also not saying that rhodium wasn't the cause either. It's just more complex than that, and looking it as rhodium being the cause isn't correct because it's the combination of materials that is causing the issue rather than any one material in particular. If rhodium ALWAYS sounded hard and edgy nobody would buy rhodium. It's not like everyone that uses rhodium experiences hard and edgy sound, so there must be more to it....

Also, I build all my own amplifiers and speakers so I also have a lot of experience with RCA jacks, binding posts, internal speaker wiring, etc... it all matters.

Edit: also good to hear on the DC power cable, for those I do stick to gold plated Oyaide plugs as almost all dc power inlets are gold or nickel plated. It seems like every LPS manufacturer has to go on Alibaba and find a bulk deal on some obscure connector though, it's incredible the number of weird off-brand electrical connectors people ask me to use when making dc cables, many time Amazon or Alibaba are the only places to get them.
 

Salectric

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It’s hard if not impossible to say which combination of power connectors is the most “accurate.” All we really know is how a particular combination of wall outlet, AC plug, IEC plug, chassis inlet and cable sounds in our own system. Yes, repeated trials by other people using different systems certainly helps, but the ultimate question of accuracy or neutrality will still remain.

My experience has led me to some tentative conclusions; maybe they should be called “working hypotheses.” These include:

1. All of the connectors I have tried with rhodium tend to have two colorations in tonal balance—-an emphasis of the upper midrange/lower treble and a dip in the lower midrange/upper bass. These tendencies can vary in degree with different parts, and NCF seems to reduce the magnitude, but I hear these effects with all parts with rhodium.

2. Despite the rhodium colorations, the best sounding IEC plug I have tried so far is the FI-50 NCF and I use it on nearly all of my power cords.

3. I am more flexible with AC plugs. I use a FI-50 NCF AC plug on the cords for my phono preamp and DAC, but I use a FI-11M Copper AC plug on my power amp cords. The FI-11 Copper has a bit more weight in the lower midrange/upper bass than the FI-50.

4. i have not found any reason to match connector metal type with the wall outlet. In particular, I prefer the sound of my phono preamp when its power cord with an FI-50 NCF AC plug is connected to an Oyaide R1 outlet instead of a GTX-D NCF outlet. And the GTX has all the trimmings—-NCF plate and the mounting box. I also prefer the sound of the amp cords, which have the FI-11M Copper plugs, connected to an Oyaide R1.

5. Perhaps more tellingly, I prefer the sound when FI-50 NCF IEC plugs are connected to an FI-6 Gold chassis inlet instead of an FI-6 Rhodium or FI-6 Rhodium NCF. The Gold chassis inlets have a more neutral tonal balance in my system and have more satisfying dynamics without sacrificing detail. I recently changed the Gold inlet on my phono preamp to an FI-9 Gold but I can’t say whether it sounds different from the FI-6 Gold since this occurred when I completely rebuilt the entire preamp. Too many other changes.

Other folks may reach different conclusions from my “working hypotheses” but so far these have worked for me.
 
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Sammy T

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Aug 30, 2012
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The FI 06 NCF (R) A/C IEC Inlet is a step up improvement over the stock no name junk IEC inlets. I am running all FI 09 NCF (R)
inlets. Way better performance top to bottom. Yes, they have a larger back body and the mounting hole centers are farther apart.
 
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Salectric

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The FI 06 NCF (R) A/C IEC Inlet is a step up improvement over the stock no name junk IEC inlets. I am running all FI 09 NCF (R)
inlets. Way better performance top to bottom. Yes, they have a larger back body and the mounting hole centers are farther apart.
Just about any after-market chassis inlet will be an improvement over the tin-plated junk used on virtually all components as they come from the factory. I started with Oyaide R inlets but quickly switched over to Furutech—FI-6 Gold, then Rhodium, then Rhodium NCF, and then back to Gold. They are all nice but my favorite, by far, is the Gold.
 

DaveC

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Just about any after-market chassis inlet will be an improvement over the tin-plated junk used on virtually all components as they come from the factory. I started with Oyaide R inlets but quickly switched over to Furutech—FI-6 Gold, then Rhodium, then Rhodium NCF, and then back to Gold. They are all nice but my favorite, by far, is the Gold.

I think what he's saying is the FI-09 is much better vs the FI-06.

I honestly don't understand exactly why, but he is correct IME. The type of wire clamps on the 09 must just be better vs the 06 set screws...
 
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Salectric

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I think what he's saying is the FI-09 is much better vs the FI-06.

I honestly don't understand exactly why, but he is correct IME. The type of wire clamps on the 09 must just be better vs the 06 set screws...
Got it. I didn’t read his comment closely enough. I agree about the superior clamping with the FI-09. I intend to use them from now on provided there’s enough room for the larger mounting hole.
 

DaveC

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These tendencies can vary in degree with different parts, and NCF seems to reduce the magnitude, but I hear these effects with all parts with rhodium.

Right. This is a perfect example of mistaking the "sound of rhodium" for noise. NCF proved this. NCF reduces noise and it's easy to measure this with an AC power quality meter. People are mistaking the effects of noise for the effects of rhodium.

What you're hearing is the reduction of noise, NOT that NCF is somehow mitigating the sound of rhodium. This goes away with gold, but then so does clarity and resolution.

Any time you increase clarity in a system you also make it possible to hear more of what's not working perfectly as well.
 
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Salectric

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Right. This is a perfect example of mistaking the "sound of rhodium" for noise. NCF proved this. NCF reduces noise and it's easy to measure this with an AC power quality meter. People are mistaking the effects of noise for the effects of rhodium.

What you're hearing is the reduction of noise, NOT that NCF is somehow mitigating the sound of rhodium. This goes away with gold, but then so does clarity and resolution.

Any time you increase clarity in a system you also make it possible to hear more of what's not working perfectly as well.
I can’t say you’re wrong but that is not consistent with my experience.
 

Sammy T

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Aug 30, 2012
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I am now only running GTX-D NCF (R) duplex A/C outlets. They replaced all the non NCF A/C outlets. The newer NCF outlet are worth every penny ! Very nice improvement for just changing out a plug.
 

Ron Resnick

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I am now only running GTX-D NCF (R) duplex A/C outlets. They replaced all the non NCF A/C outlets. The newer NCF outlet are worth every penny ! Very nice improvement for just changing out a plug.

Congratulations!

Can you please describe for us in detail the nature of the sonic improvement?

Thank you.
 

Sammy T

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Aug 30, 2012
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Better dynamics to the music, quieter back- round, more open sound stage. 11 total count for the GTX-D NCF (R) Duplex A/C plugs in my system. 8 total count of the FI - 09 (R) A/C IEC input plugs.
 

Ron Resnick

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Thank you.
 

Piotr_905

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I went from Furutech Gold to Furutech G NCF and the burning-in was long and painful but in the end the effect was amazing: so much more resolution, much wider and deeper soundstage plus a quality I always find at the end of the Furu burning-in process that is very difficult for me to describe: for example, with the accordion, I can feel the weight of the air pushed out of it. Hard for me to put it in words, especially as I'm not a native English speaker. I have also heard some opinions here in Poland from people complaining about rhodium and as I see it there are the following factors involved: 1. The rhodium is on some other material, not pure copper as in the case of Furutech. 2. The receptacle/connector is not fully burned-in. Many people are impatient. In my case, the full burn-in process with anything Furutech rhodium would be even longer than the numbers stated in this thread... (And I have been throough it many times, first FI-50 NCF on a power cord feeding my power distributor, then a new power distributor (TP-609 NCF), then a Furu Nanoflux, and finally a Furu NanoFlux NCF - each time a long and painful process with periods of such very bad sound I began to wonder if my amplifier was out of order. In the end, things would always turn out wonderful, and the final "wow" would come unexpectedly, one day, as if soemthing clicked into place. You never know when... Recently I bought a Furutech NanoFlux NCF cord as second hand, from someone who had it for 6 months and didn't like it. I tried it: first, very nice, but soon afterwards very harsh sound, hyper-pressure on the treble, horrible. I phoned the dealer, I genuinly hoped it was fully burned-in cord - it turns out the owner didn't use it much, a busy person not listening to music much, and disconnecting all cords when not in use... Well, at least I got my Nanoflux cheaply this way :)
 
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Piotr_905

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And one more thing, I know there are people who are spared the long burn-in process.. I believe them and remain forever envious...
 
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vert

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I personally don’t like what NCF does to the sound. It dampens the sound too much with the booster brace and wall outlet cover.

Just with the wall outlet cover, I noticed a homogeneity to the sound.

I have been running the older carbon fiber cover before, and it was a nice upgrade.

I have not tried the GTX-D NCF. I have had the GTX-D, but I felt the Oyaide R0 outlet was better.
 

dan31

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I am going to swap out my GTX-D with an MIT Super 20. I just need to build up the will to move items and get behind the rack.
 

highstream

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@V I don't know your set up, so speaking generally, the question I ask myself when the sound is dampened or at least initially seems homogeneous after making a change -- component, power, isolation, acoustics -- is if the difference is the result of having taken resonances or modes (e.g., floor, corner) or such out of the equation that seemed to give a fuller sound but were really muddying the works. I find it often, but not always, is that
 

vert

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Oct 26, 2015
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@V I don't know your set up, so speaking generally, the question I ask myself when the sound is dampened or at least initially seems homogeneous after making a change -- component, power, isolation, acoustics -- is if the difference is the result of having taken resonances or modes (e.g., floor, corner) or such out of the equation that seemed to give a fuller sound but were really muddying the works. I find it often, but not always, is that

Having tried both NCF booster brace and wall outlet cover, there is a particular sound and homogeneity to NCF.

I'm surprised reviews have never brought this up. It's going to elicit a strong reaction, one way or another.
 

DaveC

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Having tried both NCF booster brace and wall outlet cover, there is a particular sound and homogeneity to NCF.

I'm surprised reviews have never brought this up. It's going to elicit a strong reaction, one way or another.


NCF material doesn't have any sort of contact with the wires, and it's not a damping material either. All it does is remove noise, and this is easily measurable on an AC power quality meter.

I'd suggest it may be the damping properties of the stand and cover you don't like, maybe not the NCF material... Damping is indeed difficult to predict and requires some experimentation.
 

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