Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?

[ssfas]

Here is an interesting project that's been going on in Central London for the last few months, organised by a record label, with live performances and a hifi experience.

The Vinyl Factory Reverb Exhibition — 180 Studios

www.180studios.com

https://thevinylfactory.com/reverb/

 

[Elliot G.]

Can you expand upon or give more context as to why you think it is less important today.




Other than less than a handful of songs I have no interest or liking of these genres of music, however that doesn't mean that because you or I don't like it that those who do shouldn't enjoy them via high end audio should they chose to. And, maybe the signaling that those genres aren't "good enough" for high end is something that those selling high end should reconsider if they feel that way.

It has nothing to do with what I or we like only t

Can you expand upon or give more context as to why you think it is less important today.




Other than less than a handful of songs I have no interest or liking of these genres of music, however that doesn't mean that because you or I don't like it that those who do shouldn't enjoy them via high end audio should they chose to. And, maybe the signaling that those genres aren't "good enough" for high end is something that those selling high end should reconsider if they feel that

Can you expand upon or give more context as to why you think it is less important today.




Other than less than a handful of songs I have no interest or liking of these genres of music, however that doesn't mean that because you or I don't like it that those who do shouldn't enjoy them via high end audio should they chose to. And, maybe the signaling that those genres aren't "good enough" for high end is something that those selling high end should reconsider if they feel that way.

No
One is telling anyone what they can listen too only that in my experience I know not a single client that bought a high end system to listen to that genre of music.
Music in the 60-80s had a much different place in the world .Music changed. The world and if you don’t agree that’s fine but I don’t agree. Elvis, Dylan, The Beatles , Stones etc changed our world and music was the centerpiece. This was pre internet, pre cell phones pre ear buds etc.
You’ll hate this comment but the pre 1980’s music was the golden age of Rock and almost all the great Artists and Bands came from that era. I said most not all.
Take a piece of paper and try writing it down you will have a lot of fun.

 

[AudioHR]

It's a bit like the emperor's new clothes, no one in the real world can hear much difference between an audiophile rig and their car stereo. Unless there is a huge improvement in the sound quality on offer, the industry will be dead in 20 years.

You know I don't agree with you. Everyone that has heard my modest system can hear the difference. Whether or not they feel they need or want or can afford to invest in an audiophile rig is the real question. Obviously not everyone will but the more people that are exposed to good sound the better it is for the industry.

 

[facten]

It has nothing to do with what I or we like only t



No
One is telling anyone what they can listen too only that in my experience I know not a single client that bought a high end system to listen to that genre of music.
Music in the 60-80s had a much different place in the world .Music changed. The world and if you don’t agree that’s fine but I don’t agree. Elvis, Dylan, The Beatles , Stones etc changed our world and music was the centerpiece. This was pre internet, pre cell phones pre ear buds etc.
You’ll hate this comment but the pre 1980’s music was the golden age of Rock and almost all the great Artists and Bands came from that era. I said most not all.
Take a piece of paper and try writing it down you will have a lot of fun.

And, based upon your comments I venture to guess that you don't seek out potential clients that might have those tastes in music. That's fine if that is your choice, my point was that the high end doesn't need to be music genre exclusionary, and shouldn't be if it wants to survive long term.

I'm 72 so I was around for the 60-80's and took full part in music then and since so I don't need to write down your little attempt at a condescending history lesson

 

[Al M.]

You know I don't agree with you. Everyone that has heard my modest system can hear the difference. Whether or not they feel they need or want or can afford to invest in an audiophile rig is the real question. Obviously not everyone will but the more people that are exposed to good sound the better it is for the industry.

True. All non-audiophiles who have heard my system could hear and appreciate the difference as well. One couple, relatives of mine, still talked about it years later (they live in Austria but came over to the US for a visit).

 

[hopkins]

You know I don't agree with you. Everyone that has heard my modest system can hear the difference. Whether or not they feel they need or want or can afford to invest in an audiophile rig is the real question. Obviously not everyone will but the more people that are exposed to good sound the better it is for the industry.

Someone may hear a difference, but does it significantly enhance their appreciation of the music itself? That's the real question.

Listening to an "audiophile system" you may come out impressed with the recording and with the sound, but does it really change the appreciation we have for the artist? I don't think so. It may reinforce it a little.

Audiophiles really have a hard time with this. They can't understand that "non audiophiles" don't care so much about sound quality.

 

[ssfas]

I'm talking about visco-elastic compounds for use in audio applications, not in shoes. Sorbothane is not a good choice for audio.

I own a Loricraft PRC-3 and a sota ultrasonic system. The Loricraft does not yield a better result. It is just a vacuum; the work is done by the surfactant. You can get records clean with both methods although the Loricraft may take a while as it does each side individually and is a lot messier.

I've been using Sorbothane for years and still do, mainly to decouple the shelves on my hifi rack. I've used it under speakers sitting on stands. There are tests online that these products don't have any significant impact on frequency or impact response.

My Loricraft is in a cupboard and I can have it cleaning inside a minute and it makes no mess. I got a box set in a car boot sale where the foam filler had sat on a record, hardened and stuck onto it. Removed a lot of it with a kitchen cloth and 2 spins on the Loricraft and it was perfect. I tend to do batches of records when I'm watching sport on the TV, can do a large pile in an hour or two.

Given the Loricraft price now, if I were in the market for a cleaning machine I would likely look at an ultrasonic machine, but I'm not.

 

[tima]

When was the last time you heard a woman say: "He's so hot, he has a digital to analog converter."

 

[AudioHR]

Someone may hear a difference, but does it significantly enhance their appreciation of the music itself? That's the real question.

Listening to an "audiophile system" you may come out impressed with the recording and with the sound, but does it really change the appreciation we have for the artist? I don't think so. It may reinforce it a little.

Audiophiles really have a hard time with this. They can't understand that "non audiophiles" don't care so much about sound quality.

An interesting comment! Impossible for you or me to really answer that very real question.

Still to respond. I will concede that an appreciation for an artist or genre of music does not have to be associated with an audiophile system, music is music. Having said that I feel that non audiophiles do appreciate better sound quality. If they have the desire and means to upgrade their listening experience they will. That has been my experience , obviously you have had a different experience??

 

[Lee]

The world has changed. Kids have many entertainment options. Music is a fashion statement and sadly mostly back ground while they perform other tasks. Music is dispensed differently as we were radio listeners they aren't. Audio was cool, its not cool today. Audio was affordable and mostly American made, its not today. I believer the music was far more important than it is today. I dont want to be an old fogey but Hip-Hop and rap doesnt translate IMO to high end audio.
Other issues- there is no real money in the audio industry.
Audio companies are terrible at marketing and advertising.
Handed their futures to the one group that doesnt buy anything- the press
Way too much product, way to often replaced

When I was at Nextscreen, a number of manufacturers told us that our reviews at TAS and hifi+ drove a lot of sales. So there’s that.

Agree on too much product, way too often replaced.

 

[PeterA]

What is missing is the embedding of hi-fi into the culture. There are spots of this in the film and television world, like the Netflix series “Bosch” or the series “Suits” where the characters had vinyl rigs, but you don’t really see anything in modern advertising commercials as background props, etc.

I’ve mentioned before, long back, I thought Camille Paglia’s take on Hugh Heffner was an enlightened one. She postulated one of Heffner’s goals with Playboy magazine was to bring some culture and refinement to American men — and back in the day having a nice stereo in your pad was part and parcel to the art of seduction. Clearly times have changed — wooing and seduction hardly necessary in the modern hookup culture. Just swipe and bang! The point being having a “stereo” isn’t part of the symbolism of being suave and debonair like it was in the 60’s and 70’s when many of us were growing up. Do we even consider a bachelor pad a thing anymore? (Can young people afford such things?)

I wasn’t raised in an affluent environment, my high school wasn’t on the wealthy side of the tracks. Still, my foster brother had an amp and speakers in the basement, high school buddies had fledgling rigs even including reel-to-reels. My first real rig included Audio Research, GAS (Great American Sound), a Nackamichi cassette deck, a turntable, and a tuner. Before that I had a Kenwood integrated can’t remember the speakers. I’m not embarrassed to say some of my motivation was to own something “cool” to play my records and tapes.

On some level we have to Make (Having a) Stereo Great Again.

Camille Paglia is very astute and a great thinker. Great post Bob.

 

[Lee]

When was the last time you heard a woman say: "He's so hot, he has a digital to analog converter."

They all want a man with a big black dac.

 

[Lee]

Someone may hear a difference, but does it significantly enhance their appreciation of the music itself? That's the real question.

Listening to an "audiophile system" you may come out impressed with the recording and with the sound, but does it really change the appreciation we have for the artist? I don't think so. It may reinforce it a little.

Audiophiles really have a hard time with this. They can't understand that "non audiophiles" don't care so much about sound quality.

I believe it can. Recently someone was over and requested a track that meant a lot to them. I played it and after a while they started crying. They experienced a real emotional engagement.

The bar is pretty low here. Think about students at UVA. Most experience music through ear buds and spotify.

Another point is that we only have to get 0.2% of the population or so to have a great experience. It’s like Tam Carlson said, he wants them to have a life changing experience.

 

[Lee]

Yes it was Randy's. After picking up a couple albums there I stopped at Gray Whale in Ogden and picked up a couple more. It was definitely an encouraging site.

Love that place! Fremer and I shot a video there.

 

[Joel27]

Love that place! Fremer and I shot a video there.

Very cool!

 

[gleeds]

In thinking about a college campus I am curious how you would propose going about this where it would actually draw attention and make an impact.

Members, here is the best article I have seen on the subject under discussion.

The Pending Audiophile Demographic Disaster Is Still Brewing

Nobody wants to talk about their demise but the recent death of retailer, Andy Singer, reminds us of the pending demo problem for the hobby

futureaudiophile.com

 

[Lee]

Members, here is the best article I have seen on the subject under discussion.

The Pending Audiophile Demographic Disaster Is Still Brewing

Nobody wants to talk about their demise but the recent death of retailer, Andy Singer, reminds us of the pending demo problem for the hobby

futureaudiophile.com

Some observations:

1. No hard numbers are presented in the article that suggest that replacement customers are not happening.

2. If newer generations favor experiences, can’t we sell in-home listening as an experience to best remember the last concert? I see a lot of merit to the idea of ‘experience machines’

3. Maybe the product mix and offering needs modernizing. At TAS we talked about ‘metropolitan systems’ to describe scaled down systems that fit an urban lifestyle of smaller apartments. Think beautifully designed integrateds and Watt Puppy 50 or Sabrina size speakers. And let’s be honest, audio sucks at product naming. Get rid of the fucking acronyms and long numbers. My old Sony player is the SCD-777ES. I still love it and it still spins discs and sounds very good on Super Audio discs. But like many product names, only an engineer can appreciate the name.

4. Elliot had a great point about how the industry doesn’t market worth a shit. Largely true in my experience. Maybe we need to think in terms of 2025 types of marketing across socials and how we bring customers along the entire journey to when they are older and have more space and income for a two channel system.

5. Japanese Kissas. How cool would it be if most medium sized or larger cities offer a sound experience with cocktails. Just watching someone DJ jazz and other records while having a nice drink can make the Bosch visual cues into reality. Maybe Devon Jonas deserves credit for creating the art experience version…

 

[the sound of Tao]

I’m not sure audio excess is broadly seen as cool or aspirational for Gen Y and Gen Z.

The excessive end of extreme high end is not probably at all cool for current culture or very relevant to their life context I’d think.

Understandably the industry has been trading on the last millennium generations but then not connecting deeply with young contemporary culture. Much of industry seem to still be designing (and marketing) for the familiar baby boomer and GenX psychology where more is more is often the go.

But we can’t swim upstream against culture. Throwing entry level gear at them and expecting to entice and lure them upstream to existing extreme notions of hyperfi isn’t likely to be a good strategy if their fundamental aspirations are contrary to this. Industry needs to engage with a generation with perhaps completely different goals and identify what’s a better fit and somehow still point the compasses towards high end in terms of performance and experience of music.

Throwing up more ads or showcasing out of touch brands with last millennium design aspirations and even taking it to where Gen Z hangs out is unlikely to reach and bring back or renew appeal if the spirit and context of the gear is a miss for the audience.

Probably the question becomes what is cool to the people who’ve come out of the new millennium.

 

[AudioHR]

I’m not sure audio excess is broadly seen as cool or aspirational for Gen Y and Gen Z.

The excessive end of extreme high end is not probably at all cool for current culture or very relevant to their life context I’d think.

Understandably the industry has been trading on the last millennium generations but then not connecting deeply with young contemporary culture. Much of industry seem to still be designing (and marketing) for the familiar baby boomer and GenX psychology where more is more is often the go.

But we can’t swim upstream against culture. Throwing entry level gear at them and expecting to entice and lure them upstream to existing extreme notions of hyperfi isn’t likely to be a good strategy if their fundamental aspirations are contrary to this. Industry needs to engage with a generation with perhaps completely different goals and identify what’s a better fit and somehow still point the compasses towards high end in terms of performance and experience of music.

Throwing up more ads or showcasing out of touch brands with last millennium design aspirations and even taking it to where Gen Z hangs out is unlikely to reach and bring back or renew appeal if the spirit and context of the gear is a miss for the audience.

Probably the question becomes what is cool to the people who’ve come out of the new millennium.

Even though I don't agree with everything you have said I do think you have identified a crucial point. It is vital that the new generation decide how they want to experience music!

Hopefully the industry could provide listening opportunities and obtainable options for them to consider. My thinking is that if all you have ever experienced is an earbud then that's what you think sound reproduction is all about. If you have had alternative listening experiences then you at least can knowledgeably choose what you aspire to. Life is about experiences, all I am advocating is that in consultation with the new generation we help provide them with the opportunity to experience listening to music in a way that is better than the present norm.

With all due respect to those that have the passion and the finances to afford the extreme high end, this part of the market is not what will keep high end alive. So we agree that continuing to focus on the extreme end of our hobby completely misses the intended audience.

 

[Bobvin]

Yeah, old guys who like stereos (and make stereo equipment of the type we all have) trying to reach an audience who don’t give a shit probably does mean the industry is fading. Trying to sell buggy whips to Model T owners. Quite possibly the future experience of music has nothing to do with amps and speakers but instead neural links and embedded chips. The next big thing might be imagined in the head of some 10 year old kid tomorrow. In Elon’s Mars colony, how will folks relax and decompress… probably not with turntables and DACs and XVX or M9 type speakers.

Philosophically, I’m thinking of the Kahlil Gibran passage from “the prophet”…

Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, and though they are with you, yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love, but not your thoughts. For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward, nor tarries with yesterday.

The times they are a changing… and perhaps we’re just relics of a bygone era. Time to pour a glass of wine and drop the needle. Let youth sort it out.