I agree, and when I really think about it, the systems that I have heard which are purported to sound "accurate", articulate, and resolving, actually sound a bit thin, a bit lean, and a bit bright to me. They seem a bit washed out or bleached to me. Meatier is a good way to describe live sound. I also think of it as having a richer tone. Cymbals are not splashes of white, but colored with weight, and body, and tone.
Is Live, Unamplified Music the Correct Reference for the Sound of our Audio Systems?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
I agree, and when I really think about it, the systems that I have heard which are purported to sound "accurate", articulate, and resolving, actually sound a bit thin, a bit lean, and a bit bright to me. They seem a bit washed out or bleached to me. Meatier is a good way to describe live sound. I also think of it as having a richer tone. Cymbals are not splashes of white, but colored with weight, and body, and tone.
From what I've read about Tannoys, they would seem to be a consideration, but many do not consider them to be true horns. I've been meaning to visit Jim Smith's system to hear his Canteburys. Are you talking about removing the drivers and employing them in a custom cabinet?
They are not horns. However where else can you get 12 to 15 inch coherent driver? The dual concentric nature of the driver, with a horn tweeter, makes it sound like a single large, coherent driver. Cabinets and crossovers differ. I haven't liked any of the three Canterburys I have heard so far. Tannoy started in the 40s, and was used by Decca, Phillips, EMI, etc in their studios. Their drivers underwent various changes, dropping in impedance and sensitivity to adjust to increasing power demands. Many think that they lost it as management changed and the modern day speakers aren't as good.
Old drivers are 16 ohms, then there are 8, then are the tougher to drive Canterbury etc. Cabinets vary, as do crossover mods. I am still figuring it out, I already know I like the old ones with modded cross overs, I still need to check out various Westminster installs and some really old drivers ones.
Some are easier to drive than some horns, and have great tone and bass and flow. Coherence is great. You lose out on ultimate detail
In strict terms, Tannoys are not time coherent. They have a second order crossover that makes the time alignment not really possible. I would consider an Altec 604 variant before i would a Tannoy...what I have heard from those old Altecs is pretty special...and 100DB! Also, I think you could consider the tweeter on the Tannoy a type of horn or waveguide loading.
"In strict terms, Tannoys are not time coherent. They have a second order crossover that makes the time alignment not really possible. I would consider an Altec 604 variant before i would a Tannoy...what I have heard from those old Altecs is pretty special...and 100DB!"
You can find time aligned Altec 604 and JBL 801C coaxial in the UREI monitors which sound really nice especially the 811c
Rob
You can find time aligned Altec 604 and JBL 801C coaxial in the UREI monitors which sound really nice especially the 811c
Rob
I DON'T WANT to listen at home at live levels. Why? Because it's damaging to the ear, that's why. I follow NIOSH recommendations:
https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/decibel-loudness-comparison-chart/
From time to time a live concert is fine, but I don't want to torture my ears every day. I plan to be an audiophile also at 75 or 85, if I live that long, God willing. I need my ears. I already listen quite loudly at home (too loud for some), but not excessively so.
Brad, didn't you say that you listen at home at relatively low levels? Or is my recollection of some recent posts mistaken?
Yes, we had several discussions about cymbal sound. They are important to me too, and i prefer a meaty sound. Sometimes live cymbals though do sound relatively white, but usually it's an array of colors.
Yes, I also value my ears and don't listen loud very often. I rarely ever get as loud as I heard last night but when it is clean loud then it is quite tolerable. That is one of the things my horns do well...getting loud while staying very clean.
Would love to hear some Urei monitors someday...they were quite famous..."In strict terms, Tannoys are not time coherent. They have a second order crossover that makes the time alignment not really possible. I would consider an Altec 604 variant before i would a Tannoy...what I have heard from those old Altecs is pretty special...and 100DB!"
You can find time aligned Altec 604 and JBL 801C coaxial in the UREI monitors which sound really nice especially the 811c
Rob
"In strict terms, Tannoys are not time coherent. They have a second order crossover that makes the time alignment not really possible. I would consider an Altec 604 variant before i would a Tannoy...what I have heard from those old Altecs is pretty special...and 100DB!"
You can find time aligned Altec 604 and JBL 801C coaxial in the UREI monitors which sound really nice especially the 811c
Rob
Actually, I am planning to visit a tannoy guy who moved to urei, but maybe two or three months later
The listening lifestyle of a retired audiophile will differ from that of someone working 5 days a week, or listening in his office at work. For that, there is volume control, but the system should be able to play at loud levels when required.
This is also why some people purposefully roll off sound, because they do not have the financial means to chop and change and do room treatment till they get the perfect highs that are extended yet not harsh. This protects ears, as does lower volume. Just that when reporting on WBF, we should report what we think is ideal sound and what we are doing for our compromises. Many people report things that roll off, like underpowered valves amps on tough to drive speakers for pleasant clipping, as the SOTA way to go.
Yep, all. But they still sound pretty coherent because of the co-location of the drivers. Dynamikks are also not time coherent but being coax they sound quite so. The old Altec driver is a beast and has a great reputation for a reason...it is damn good.
On under driving it does not always necessarily get harsh. Sometimes it gets soft on tops, also dynamic range can compress
"On under driving it does not always necessarily get harsh. Sometimes it gets soft on tops, also dynamic range can compress "
Depends on how you under drive. If you follow the normal train of thought you want to have more power available than the drivers can handle for dynamic headroom. But is does not have to be done that way. It all depends on power handling and driver sensitivity. If you start with high sensitivity drivers that also combine high power handling you can easily "under power" the drivers and not really sacrifice your dynamic range. You can actually set up a situation where you are not driving your amps into clipping and never running enough power into the drivers for them to have an issue with power compression and not sacrifice dynamic range. There is a sweet spot.
Rob
Depends on how you under drive. If you follow the normal train of thought you want to have more power available than the drivers can handle for dynamic headroom. But is does not have to be done that way. It all depends on power handling and driver sensitivity. If you start with high sensitivity drivers that also combine high power handling you can easily "under power" the drivers and not really sacrifice your dynamic range. You can actually set up a situation where you are not driving your amps into clipping and never running enough power into the drivers for them to have an issue with power compression and not sacrifice dynamic range. There is a sweet spot.
Rob
That's a big word salad for a simple fact, some amplifiers clip softly so you don't hear it, others clip very harshly so it's horrid to hear. But sometimes even soft ones can clip to the point of being harsh.
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