Isolation Transformer and Balanced Power versus PS Audio Regenerator

[Ron Resnick]

Who has compared directly in the same system, on an apples-to-apples basis, an isolation transformer and balanced power device (e.g., Equi-Tech or Torus or Furman P-2400 IT) to a PS Audio power regenerator?

What sonic differences did you hear between these two different power solutions?

What were the advantages and disadvantages of each system?

Did you notice any negative or deleterious effects on the sound from using either type of device versus plugging the system directly into the wall outlets?

 

[Uk Paul]

Yes Ron, I owned P10 for about 3 years. While it proved to be an improvement over total system wall connection, my amplifiers did not benefit and had to stay wall connected. After some experimentation, (niggling doubt had set in - audio nervosa! ) I was gradually removing items from it and actually preffering it, subtle but I was quite sure about it. Then my prior experiences with using balanced transformers urged me to try these again in place of the P10, I still had a pair so rigged up these with a DC filter circuit etc. The system just sounded considerably better, quite significant in fact, across the board, with seemingly no trade off's. It was then that I could see clear potential in a device that was thoroughly thought out and aesthetically pleasing, and pushed ahead with the design work. 5 month's later the first Symetrica was built, and after some further comparison to the P10 (it didn't need much) the P10 was sold. Balanced proved the way to go, unequivocally, and was more than capable of powering big amps, my Concert Fidelity ZL200's no problem, to CAT JL3, Gamut mono's, etc. I had previously taken the P10 to a good friends system as he was very keen on one, but he failed to see much benefit sonically so didn't buy one, but trying the Symetrica prototype in his system and he ordered within an hour.

Sonic differences? Balanced is free-er, unrestrained, more space and air, better tonality, sound is free from the speakers, in the room, with lower backgound noise, just simply better. Some people love their P10's etc, they need to try a decently designed balanced device to get some perspective on their sound. I have customers that have sold off Furmans, Kemps, Isotek Genesis & Titans for the Symetrica.

IMO there are no negatives. And my advice to you is as per Mike, in wall Equi=tech, until we have a US version Symetrica available, which will happen, probably late this year after the EU Schuko version is completed.

 

[Pallen]

Ron, I have been experimenting with AC power over the last 10-12 months. Like Paul, I have found Balanced Isolation Transformers significantly superior to the Isotek Genesis Regenerator, as well as the Isotek and Nordost power conditioners that I auditioned in my home system. I won’t attempt to describe the differences – it was no contest to my ears.

I have now owned 2 x 230v Balanced Iso Transformers. As a toe in the water strategy, I purchased a budget priced AirLink from the UK. The model I tried used a balanced toroid transformer, but with no DC filter circuit. From there, I looked closely at the Westwick transformers (UK), but opted for a custom made Balanced EI Transformer from a crowd called J&K Audio Design in Malaysia. It was fully potted, and used top quality materials including a good DC filter (OCC copper, Vishay etc). The results were a big step up from the first Transformer, especially in the bass and in depth of soundstage. This second 700VA transformer was customized to match my various source components, but I found I could run my ARC REF 75SE amp off it without a problem. Not all my components benefited equally – it was the ARC amp and my turntable that stepped up significantly.

But the item that has benefited my system more than any other has been a quality mains block, made by Gutwire Audio in Canada. It has 8 x Schuko connectors (Furutech NCF). It brings a rightness and a naturalness that surpasses anything else I have tried until now. I am especially enjoying the enhanced tonal colour it brings to the music. I must add that my 2nd transformer was not of the quality that Paul has designed, but that has been my experience to date.

 

[daytona600]

compared PS and a few other regen units & they sound the same as my off grid PV inverter for a 1/10th of the cost
Grid inverters have built in isolation transformers
or inverter/battery system with charger & charge the batteries from the mains to power the Hifi
Living voice/Kondo use this power supply system at audio shows to power $1million + systems

 

[jeffreybehr]

THIS thread will be interesting, as I have a PSA P20 arriving tomorrow the 30th and have had a Balanced Power Technology Ultra-3.5 20-Amp P-con in my system for many years.

It had it assembled years ago with six Furutech duplex outlets [including three GTX-D (R)s] and 20A. power inlet. This system also has a very-premium Neotec/Furutech 10g. inlet cable, a GTX-D (R) wall outlet, and a dedicated 20A. branch circuit. When the P20 arrives, I'll put it on the bottom shelf and the BPT on the next-up shelf and will be able to drive the two p-cons with the SAME cable, etc., for comparison.

Now all I need is a pair of golden ears!

 

[MRJAZZ]

THIS thread will be interesting, as I have a PSA P20 arriving tomorrow the 30th and have had a Balanced Power Technology Ultra-3.5 20-Amp P-con in my system for many years.
View attachment 50923
It had it assembled years ago with six Furutech duplex outlets [including three GTX-D (R)s] and 20A. power inlet. This system also has a very-premium Neotec/Furutech 10g. inlet cable, a GTX-D (R) wall outlet, and a dedicated 20A. branch circuit. When the P20 arrives, I'll put it on the bottom shelf and the BPT on the next-up shelf and will be able to drive the two p-cons with the SAME cable, etc., for comparison.

Now all I need is a pair of golden ears!

THIS thread will be interesting, as I have a PSA P20 arriving tomorrow the 30th and have had a Balanced Power Technology Ultra-3.5 20-Amp P-con in my system for many years.
View attachment 50923
It had it assembled years ago with six Furutech duplex outlets [including three GTX-D (R)s] and 20A. power inlet. This system also has a very-premium Neotec/Furutech 10g. inlet cable, a GTX-D (R) wall outlet, and a dedicated 20A. branch circuit. When the P20 arrives, I'll put it on the bottom shelf and the BPT on the next-up shelf and will be able to drive the two p-cons with the SAME cable, etc., for comparison.

Now all I need is a pair of golden ears!

Make sure you get a minimum of 75 tp 100 hours on the P20 before you do any serious evaluations.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Make sure you get a minimum of 75 tp 100 hours on the P20 before you do any serious evaluations.

OK.. I keep all my solidstate equipment on 24/7 and that, of course, includes the p-con.. Probably I'll install it, connect everything to it, get it running, and just use the system for at least a week.

 

[kodomo]

I had PowerPlantPremier from PS Audio. It did not fulfill my expactations at all.

Then I had Purepower APS2000+ which was actually a good sounding unit but it was injecting its own noise to the soundsystem. I could not get rid of it unless it was completely disconnected from the grid. It was great for black outs, I had no stress when the weather was bad...

Then I got a Torus AVR30. It is on par or better than purepower for sound I get and does not inject any noise into the soundsystem. However, when the input voltage is lower than usual, the unit itself makes some noise. I can barely hear it from my listening position. It is a rare occasion so I accepted it. I have plans to position it somewhere else in the future because of this.

I also need to remind you that I have a direct line from the post to my sound system through an 32amp Silent Wire fuse and there is absolutely nothing else on that line. Everything is then connected via Shunyata Sigma Analog, Alpha NR and HC and Delta NR power cables.

 

[wil]

I have PSaudo P12 Regenerator. It seems to go a good job and I don't think it drains dynamics (it measures .008 output impedance).

I don't have any desire to A/B it with an iso transformer, but would be curious to know what others have found-- particularly with the Torus.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Received the P20, moved the BPT 3.5-Ultra to the next-higher shelf, added ISOAcoustics' ISO-Pucks, and it's running.. Less than a week later, it definitely helps the system sound better than with the BPT, so I removed the BPT.
Soundstage is bigger, massed strings are less edgy.

I'm thrilled.

 

[Alrainbow]

Yes Ron, I owned P10 for about 3 years. While it proved to be an improvement over total system wall connection, my amplifiers did not benefit and had to stay wall connected. After some experimentation, (niggling doubt had set in - audio nervosa! ) I was gradually removing items from it and actually preffering it, subtle but I was quite sure about it. Then my prior experiences with using balanced transformers urged me to try these again in place of the P10, I still had a pair so rigged up these with a DC filter circuit etc. The system just sounded considerably better, quite significant in fact, across the board, with seemingly no trade off's. It was then that I could see clear potential in a device that was thoroughly thought out and aesthetically pleasing, and pushed ahead with the design work. 5 month's later the first Symetrica was built, and after some further comparison to the P10 (it didn't need much) the P10 was sold. Balanced proved the way to go, unequivocally, and was more than capable of powering big amps, my Concert Fidelity ZL200's no problem, to CAT JL3, Gamut mono's, etc. I had previously taken the P10 to a good friends system as he was very keen on one, but he failed to see much benefit sonically so didn't buy one, but trying the Symetrica prototype in his system and he ordered within an hour.

Sonic differences? Balanced is free-er, unrestrained, more space and air, better tonality, sound is free from the speakers, in the room, with lower backgound noise, just simply better. Some people love their P10's etc, they need to try a decently designed balanced device to get some perspective on their sound. I have customers that have sold off Furmans, Kemps, Isotek Genesis & Titans for the Symetrica.

IMO there are no negatives. And my advice to you is as per Mike, in wall Equi=tech, until we have a US version Symetrica available, which will happen, probably late this year after the EU Schuko version is completed.

May I ask what you used for dc line noise reduction filter you are using. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you very much for your thoughts Paul, Pallen and kodomo. I appreciate you writing down and publishing your experiences!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Received the P20, moved the BPT 3.5-Ultra to the next-higher shelf, added ISOAcoustics' ISO-Pucks, and it's running.. Less than a week later, it definitely helps the system sound better than with the BPT, so I removed the BPT.View attachment 51286
Soundstage is bigger, massed strings are less edgy.

I'm thrilled.

Thank you for reporting this.

Now the interesting thing is you prefer the PS Audio over a balanced power/isolation transformer device, and Paul and Pallen are reporting the opposite preference!

 

[Folsom]

There's sooooooooooooooooooooooo many variables in that. Basically everything following the power sources are variables for preference.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Thank you for reporting this.

Now the interesting thing is you prefer the PS Audio over a balanced power/isolation transformer device, and Paul and Pallen are reporting the opposite preference!

Well, the combination of particular equipment, powercords, and power contamination is infinite in number, and even at one location, the power contamination changes, perhaps even by the second, so differing opinions are probably the rule and not the exception.

 

[Alrainbow]

I can't say anything about Paul's new regens.
But I have tried n used all the rest.
I had a 10 kw iso if wired for 220 input helps more.
Then I made it into a bal 10kw like neutric even better.
Now have a 20 k model I made.
I still use the p10 unit on front end. Paul has a cool feature on his units this in effect phase shifts the voltage and current a bit. The end result is a slightly longer charge cycle of each sign wave on crest and trought.
It does help a bit.
I don't like his re gen on my amps but they are huge so Better out of the bal iso
As for what does what

A simple iso I feel does little as it's still tied to common mode noise and only Betters things a bit if it has a noise filter add on. And better still if wired for 220 input.

Now a bal iso is much Better it reduces common mode noise and if one wires it for 220 input it lowers dc or sign wave distortion
Any dc line noise reduced limits power so for me not good. Now it does work well on smaller less than 400 watt transformers but they don't get the full benifit due to a higher winging resistance.

They each lower noise floors and allow our audio to have more details and seem more relaxed as well.
Dc on the mains on large amps greatly effects them so if you feel your setup sounds off go close to your amps Tranny if it's humming louder or growls it's there.
I have measured my dc buss on amps and it lowers the buss voltage. Typical norm 72 and can be as low as 65. That is a lot and if I go into my bal Iso it's back up. And yes same input voltage is measured at input of amps both wAys.
So if it was me a large iso bal with the line freq noise filter add on is best. No dc filter needed either.
On power has anyone tried any line Polarity shifting ?

 

[Alrainbow]

PS anyone who has a ps audio re gen try it on your tv and cable box it greatly betters this too.
I have yet to see a power cord do this and my bal iso does this too. But it's line noise filter that helps this I feel.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I can't say anything about Paul's new regens.
But I have tried n used all the rest.
I had a 10 kw iso if wired for 220 input helps more.
Then I made it into a bal 10kw like neutric even better.
Now have a 20 k model I made.
I still use the p10 unit on front end. Paul has a cool feature on his units this in effect phase shifts the voltage and current a bit. The end result is a slightly longer charge cycle of each sign wave on crest and trought.
It does help a bit.
I don't like his re gen on my amps but they are huge so Better out of the bal iso
As for what does what

A simple iso I feel does little as it's still tied to common mode noise and only Betters things a bit if it has a noise filter add on. And better still if wired for 220 input.

Now a bal iso is much Better it reduces common mode noise and if one wires it for 220 input it lowers dc or sign wave distortion
Any dc line noise reduced limits power so for me not good. Now it does work well on smaller less than 400 watt transformers but they don't get the full benifit due to a higher winging resistance.

They each lower noise floors and allow our audio to have more details and seem more relaxed as well.
Dc on the mains on large amps greatly effects them so if you feel your setup sounds off go close to your amps Tranny if it's humming louder or growls it's there.
I have measured my dc buss on amps and it lowers the buss voltage. Typical norm 72 and can be as low as 65. That is a lot and if I go into my bal Iso it's back up. And yes same input voltage is measured at input of amps both wAys.
So if it was me a large iso bal with the line freq noise filter add on is best. No dc filter needed either.
On power has anyone tried any line Polarity shifting ?

Focusing on your front and components, have you done a direct A/B comparison between your P10 and your balanced power/isolation box for the front end components alone?

 

[Alrainbow]

Yes and it's why it's still in my setup. Now keep in mind I feed it off the bal iso too.
I feel it adds some more depth in staging on doing an A/B all remaining the same devices , tubes etc.
it even adds to my headphone rigs as well.
Woo audio WA 5 and woo audio WES.
I think tube devices perhaps benifit more in this.

 

[MRJAZZ]

The latest PS Audio P 20 is definitely better than their previous generations ( I currently have a P5 , P 10, and the new P20.) The overall sound is just much cleaner, relaxed and emerges from a very quiet background. Check out the latest Stereophile follow up review of the P20. Jason Victor Serinus is ecstatic about the P20. He said something to the effect that he had never liked any of the previous line conditioners he had tested, including PS AUDIO. However the P20 is now part of his system going forward.
He mentioned he initially tried to run some PASS 200.5 Mono Blocks, but the P20 shut down on turn on, even when powering up one Mono Block at a time. At the suggestion of Paul at PS AUDIO he tried the other input AC receptacle, which allows for a 20 amp cable. And once it was plugged into his dedicated 20 amp curcuit (he initially had used the dedicated 20 amp curcuit , but plugged into the 15 amp receptacle on the PS AUDIO) there were no issues. The amps run perfectly with zero issues, and the sound is improved across the board, per Jason at Stereophile.
It’s somewhat pricey at 10 K MSRP, and there may be better solutions for less money, but I haven’t heard better in either of our two demo rooms.
Cheers.....