John DeVore on the Grey Market and OCD Mikey

[PeterA]

A few things to keep in mind:

1. I posted this without comment because I figured we would wait on Mike’s side of the story. I repeatedly said this is subsequent responses.

2. I reach out to Mike earlier today for comment and that led to his reply here. On that call I learned that this was an event from six years ago.

3. Mike and I have talked since and we remain friends and my only goal was to get to the truth.

Lee, why not just pick up the phone and call your friend to get to the truth privately before taking this public and amplifying it on this audio site?

 

[Ron Resnick]

But it is brought up six years later. Why is that?

I have no information other than what we see on John DeVore's video, and what we see from Mike Powell on this thread.

It appears to me that John DeVore remains upset about the matter, and, for whatever reason, he chose to talk on YouTube about it only yesterday. There is no statute of limitations on being upset about acting upon what Mike now admits (to his credit) was a knowing misrepresentation.

 

[Lee]

Lee, why not just pick up the phone and call your friend to get to the truth privately before taking this public and amplifying it on this audio site?

It was already public and given all the industry discussion on WBF I figured I would post it here as a topic for discussion.

 

[Lee]

Respectfully, a lie is a lie! Similar to the MoFi deception this is ethically wrong! I will not purchase from those that have proven that they think it’s proper to deceive others.

Not understanding the response as I am in agreement that the lie was wrong.

 

[Audire]

Not understanding the response as I am in agreement that the lie was wrong.

Lee did Mikey lie or misrepresent a sale? You claim to be his friend, so inform us?

 

[Audire]

I don’t see JD as improperly judging OCD Mikey. Instead I see him entitling a video as:

50 Shades Of Grey (Market). What are Grey Market sales compared to White and Black Market sales?​

I don‘t see any references to OCD Mikey in the Title! However, i think WTB has made this video about “What's the Worst in OCD Mikey” … Shame on us!

I think we should take a step back and see the original intention (Title) of the video! I simply see JD as using OCD Mikey as a simple example of grey market products …

 

[facten]

Why would he post the video without first discussing it with Mike? I would never do such a thing without talking to my friend first

See my post No 6 - asked if he had been notified

 

[facten]

On that call I learned that this was an event from six years ago

Think it was quite evident in the video you posted that it was 6 years ago.

 

[facten]

I don‘t see any references to OCD Mikey in the Title

Seem to recall that when the video was originally posted on here that the title did include reference to OCD Mickey

 

[Audire]

Seem to recall that when the video was originally posted on here that the title did include reference to OCD Mickey

I‘m not talking about here. I’m referencing JD and his actual title of the video. See post #3 by Hopkins.

 

[facten]

I‘m not talking about here. I’m referencing JD and his actual title of the video. See post #3 by Hopkins

Joe I may be wrong but the video initially posted by Hopkins I seem to recall had OCD Mickey in the title and was subsequently changed and hence now appears differently

 

[facten]

Lee did Mikey lie or misrepresent a sale? You claim to be his friend, so inform us?

My previous company sold a pair of speakers at full price to a customer in a single isolated incident 6 years ago. My company represented no speaker brands at the time and this was a one time sale that I said was for us to use. (the big lie). I decided to stick my neck out and get a product to serve a client. There's never an issue with these sales unless the item shows up on the second hand market before a year. This happened due to the mental breakdown of the client who was too embarrassed to ask me for a refund, which I would have done as he states in the letter above. There was no agreement with Devore either verbally or in writing. I apologized and made it good 6 years ago

 

[Audire]

Joe I may be wrong but the video initially posted by Hopkins I seem to recall had OCD Mickey in the title and was subsequently changed and hence now appears differently

I just checked AS where the video was posted hours before being posted here. OCD Mikey’s name isn’t in the title. Of course as you wIsley pointed out it could have been edited as well …

Interesting video on grey market audio goods....

I though this was a really interesting video on grey market audio goods. Please note I am NOT the 'Mike' he is referring to at about the 9:40 mark. 50 Shades Of Grey (Market). What are Grey Market sales compared to White and Black Market sales? - YouTube

www.audioshark.org

 

[PYP]

Are folks writing about the high cost of gear because Mr. DeVore spends 10 minutes discussing unobtainable non-audio luxury goods as though he really has intimate knowledge of these things? I found that rather odd.

On the other hand, supply and demand and price elasticity explain a lot. If you price yourself out of business you have proved a bad business plan.

And does anyone believe that high prices, while a source of outrage, discourages music lovers from building a satisfactory setup that is within their budget?

Does free will cease to operate when there are 90K grounding systems (is that really true ?)?

 

[Lee]

I just checked AS where the video was posted hours before being posted here. OCD Mikey’s name isn’t in the title. Of course as you wIsley pointed out it could have been edited as well …

Interesting video on grey market audio goods....

I though this was a really interesting video on grey market audio goods. Please note I am NOT the 'Mike' he is referring to at about the 9:40 mark. 50 Shades Of Grey (Market). What are Grey Market sales compared to White and Black Market sales? - YouTube

www.audioshark.org

I don’t see the discussion on Audiophile Style. Did they take it down?

 

[Lee]

Are folks writing about the high cost of gear because Mr. DeVore spends 10 minutes discussing unobtainable non-audio luxury goods as though he really has intimate knowledge of these things? I found that rather odd.

On the other hand, supply and demand and price elasticity explain a lot. If you price yourself out of business you have proved a bad business plan.

And does anyone believe that high prices, while a source of outrage, discourages music lovers from building a satisfactory setup that is within their budget?

Does free will cease to operate when there are 90K grounding systems (is that really true ?)?

Good point.

 

[Audire]

I don’t see the discussion on Audiophile Style. Did they take it down?

Lee, I gave the link above. You quoted it. It is on Audio Shark… it’s still there at the moment.

 

[Verastarr]

Thanks guys for seeing a potential motivation here. The result is that its picked an old scab, so we may as well look at the wound. Let us consider the following;

Example 1.
An identified audio reseller asks a MFG for a single audio SKU at dealer cost "to use in house", in order to actually fulfill a clients desire. This piece is then sold at full price to that client instead of being used in house by the reseller. (the big lie) For the MFG, the result is the end user is a different entity. After one years time, nothing matters anymore.

Example 2.
An identified audio magazine employee is offered a single audio SKU at dealer cost, or more commonly on "permanent loan" to use in house to fulfill their own personal desire. This piece is then used to promote that manufacturers product in the magazine in many different ways. Furthermore that Media employee may be friends with the local dealer that sells the said brand. Potentially that magazine employee receives a kickback on every client they bring to the store to listen to the illustrious brand. The MFG in this example also advertises in the aforementioned magazine. Is there a possibility that the magazine may have biased stories and promotional mentions on chosen brands based on what funnels money into this closed circuit ? (ever seen how they pitch cables in the middle of a component or speaker review ?) Is there even a possibility we are told the products with the highest profit margins are the "best sounding" ?...... Lets walk the wild side of conspiracy and ask is there a possibility we are being TRAINED that the most expensive gear is the best sounding ? Follow the money, right ??

To me anyways, the real story here isn't the MFG getting duped on what end user gets their speaker before 1 years time, the bigger story is the end user getting duped on which MFGs extract their money. There seems to be a certain handful of "media sweethearts" doesn't there ?
Why do I care, you ask ? Because I clean up the mess for many GOOD people that simply LOVE Music and have the means to spend deep, and they are unhappy after spending hundreds of thousands, now they have had the piss taken out of them. In regards to their BELIEF in quality audio gear. So they hardly listen to what they just spent years on the merry go round with. ie: their life becomes scant on music enjoyment. Too many bad memories of buying and selling, repairs, etc. This makes me angry and upset. I want my clients and friends to enjoy music just like I do. Im convinced It makes life better all around.

This whole regurgitation of an old story (thats over now) illustrates, yet again, how the audio media is used to manipulate the end users whether its your perception of a seller or your perception of what gear is best. This Starts with JD's defamatory video.
What I just laid out above is a good part of the platform I stand on. Its WHY this over fared, long haired, leaping gnome upsets so many in the industry. I break the old common narrative, and pull the curtain back.

So by all means pick your villain. The one with intentions to serve you, or the ones with intention to serve the establishment..

Hope you all enjoy the weekend... Get OUTSIDE if its not too hot. ;-)

 

[hopkins]

Thanks guys for seeing a potential motivation here. The result is that its picked an old scab, so we may as well look at the wound. Let us consider the following;

Example 1.
An identified audio reseller asks a MFG for a single audio SKU at dealer cost "to use in house", in order to actually fulfill a clients desire. This piece is then sold at full price to that client instead of being used in house by the reseller. (the big lie) For the MFG, the result is the end user is a different entity. After one years time, nothing matters anymore.

Example 2.
An identified audio magazine employee is offered a single audio SKU at dealer cost, or more commonly on "permanent loan" to use in house to fulfill their own personal desire. This piece is then used to promote that manufacturers product in the magazine in many different ways. Furthermore that Media employee may be friends with the local dealer that sells the said brand. Potentially that magazine employee receives a kickback on every client they bring to the store to listen to the illustrious brand. The MFG in this example also advertises in the aforementioned magazine. Is there a possibility that the magazine may have biased stories and promotional mentions on chosen brands based on what funnels money into this closed circuit ? (ever seen how they pitch cables in the middle of a component or speaker review ?) Is there even a possibility we are told the products with the highest profit margins are the "best sounding" ?...... Lets walk the wild side of conspiracy and ask is there a possibility we are being TRAINED that the most expensive gear is the best sounding ? Follow the money, right ??

To me anyways, the real story here isn't the MFG getting duped on what end user gets their speaker before 1 years time, its the end user getting duped on which MFG extracts their money. There seems to be a certain handful of "media sweethearts" doesn't there ?
Why do I care, you ask ? Because I clean up the mess for many GOOD people that simply LOVE Music and have the means to spend deep, and they are unhappy after spending hundreds of thousands, now they have had the piss taken out of them. In regards to their BELIEF in quality audio gear. So they hardly listen to what they just spent years on the merry go round with. ie: their life becomes scant on music enjoyment. Too many bad memories of buying and selling, repairs, etc. This makes me angry and upset. I want my clients and friends to enjoy music just like I do. Im convinced It makes life better all around.

This whole regurgitation of an old story (thats over now) illustrates, yet again, how the audio media is used to manipulate the end users whether its your perception of a seller or your perception of what gear is best. This Starts with JD's defamatory video.
What I just laid out above is a good part of the platform I stand on. Its WHY this over fared, long haired, leaping gnome upsets so many in the industry. I break the old common narrative, and pull the curtain back.

So by all means pick your villain. The one with intentions to accommodate you, or the ones with intention to accommodate the establishment..

Hope you all enjoy the weekend... Get OUTSIDE if its not too hot. ;-)

Got a good laugh from all this. Thanks! The mumbo jumbo is entertaining, but moving on..

 

[Robert Young]

Thanks guys for seeing a potential motivation here. The result is that its picked an old scab, so we may as well look at the wound. Let us consider the following;

Example 1.
An identified audio reseller asks a MFG for a single audio SKU at dealer cost "to use in house", in order to actually fulfill a clients desire. This piece is then sold at full price to that client instead of being used in house by the reseller. (the big lie) For the MFG, the result is the end user is a different entity. After one years time, nothing matters anymore.

Example 2.
An identified audio magazine employee is offered a single audio SKU at dealer cost, or more commonly on "permanent loan" to use in house to fulfill their own personal desire. This piece is then used to promote that manufacturers product in the magazine in many different ways. Furthermore that Media employee may be friends with the local dealer that sells the said brand. Potentially that magazine employee receives a kickback on every client they bring to the store to listen to the illustrious brand. The MFG in this example also advertises in the aforementioned magazine. Is there a possibility that the magazine may have biased stories and promotional mentions on chosen brands based on what funnels money into this closed circuit ? (ever seen how they pitch cables in the middle of a component or speaker review ?) Is there even a possibility we are told the products with the highest profit margins are the "best sounding" ?...... Lets walk the wild side of conspiracy and ask is there a possibility we are being TRAINED that the most expensive gear is the best sounding ? Follow the money, right ??

To me anyways, the real story here isn't the MFG getting duped on what end user gets their speaker before 1 years time, the bigger story is the end user getting duped on which MFGs extract their money. There seems to be a certain handful of "media sweethearts" doesn't there ?
Why do I care, you ask ? Because I clean up the mess for many GOOD people that simply LOVE Music and have the means to spend deep, and they are unhappy after spending hundreds of thousands, now they have had the piss taken out of them. In regards to their BELIEF in quality audio gear. So they hardly listen to what they just spent years on the merry go round with. ie: their life becomes scant on music enjoyment. Too many bad memories of buying and selling, repairs, etc. This makes me angry and upset. I want my clients and friends to enjoy music just like I do. Im convinced It makes life better all around.

This whole regurgitation of an old story (thats over now) illustrates, yet again, how the audio media is used to manipulate the end users whether its your perception of a seller or your perception of what gear is best. This Starts with JD's defamatory video.
What I just laid out above is a good part of the platform I stand on. Its WHY this over fared, long haired, leaping gnome upsets so many in the industry. I break the old common narrative, and pull the curtain back.

So by all means pick your villain. The one with intentions to serve you, or the ones with intention to serve the establishment..

Hope you all enjoy the weekend... Get OUTSIDE if its not too hot. ;-)

That post did you no favors, at least with me.