KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

spiritofmusic

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Oh Phil, I just mean that Zu chat might better be served on the dedicated Zu thread.

Unless of course Keith in his search is open to moving back twds Zu.
 

Rob181

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Oh Phil, I just mean that Zu chat might better be served on the dedicated Zu thread.
Unless of course Keith in his search is open to moving back twds Zu.

Please don't change a bloody thing - this is a great thread.
 

spiritofmusic

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Okay, okay, I hear ya LOL!
No complaint from me, I'm a died in the wool Zu man.
I just thought this might deflect from Keith's search which is not gonna be returning to Zu.

FWIW, it would be just reward for Sean Casey if he could produce a breakthru model that gets the Zu skeptics pricking up their ears. He's one of the most ceaselessly curious designers out there who provides revisions to models that somehow manage to maintain a core USP while expanding the sound to be more palatable to others. It looks like the VI range is shaping up to be very special. Maybe Soul Supremes, Druids and Definitions, covering a reasonably affordable price range.
 

morricab

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That is very interesting, Christoph. Would you please explain, in detail, why you prefer the Anima over the Avaton?
I also prefer Animas to Avatons...to my ears Avatons completely lack coherence...a speaker killer for me.
 
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morricab

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What worthwhile isn't better today than 10 years ago?

Lots are not. Zu has been on a non-stop 19 years improvement push since 2000 -- every model -- with the singular misstep of the ribbon-tweetered Essence. It tells you everything you need to know about what's wrong with established hi-fi press that Zu had to make their least authentic speaker to get the cover of Stereophile. Of course misunderstood and misrepresented by most ever since.

Nevertheless, Druid 1 was a revelation in FRD-based speakers in 2000 and it steadily improved through version 4-08. Definition was a scale, agility and, space & tonal sensation in its original version in 2004. These speakers have to be considered in the context of what else was available at given points in time.

Phil
More than a bit of revisionist history...you are convenienly forgetting about a lot of great speakers that were in many ways superior to the Zus t that time...
 

Audiophile Bill

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I also prefer Animas to Avatons...to my ears Avatons completely lack coherence...a speaker killer for me.

Was looking at the design last night actually and can’t understand how they can possibly be coherent at least considering physical time alignment. So unless the crossover has done all sorts to align them, then I can only see them not being coherent. I haven’t heard them (caveat).
 

christoph

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I also prefer Animas to Avatons...to my ears Avatons completely lack coherence...a speaker killer for me.
Besides the lack of coherence what annoyed me a lot because the sounds where all over the place, I found the Avatons to be VERY shouty :rolleyes:
 

bonzo75

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I don't think Avaton were shouty. I preferred the Anima but the shoutiness can exist in both with wrong set ups. The Anima in 2016 with the trafomatic Elysium was indeed superlative. The Avalon to me did not seem to be as lively and bass seemed to be off. It seemed to be more open at the top which is why I think Ron prefers that
 

spiritofmusic

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This is all based at one experience at one show? Does anyone indeed know of any other public showing of the Avaton, either another show or in someone's system?

If not, maybe this was simply a prototype, or a testing of the water to see if there is the demand for a c.€250k flagship.

Would anyone really buy this spkr over similarly priced ACerat Symphonia w Erevus subs or 4 panel Alsyvox?
 

bonzo75

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This is all based at one experience at one show? Does anyone indeed know of any other public showing of the Avaton, either another show or in someone's system?

If not, maybe this was simply a prototype, or a testing of the water to see if there is the demand for a c.€250k flagship.

Would anyone really buy this spkr over similarly priced ACerat Symphonia w Erevus subs or 4 panel Alsyvox?

So only the similarly priced ones are a choice? Lower priced ones are out?

Avaton only at show demos. But the tune audio room seems to sound good when they have good amplification since they did it in that room year after year and have good space. The sound seems to change more based on amps and gets better to the end
 
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morricab

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Besides the lack of coherence what annoyed me a lot because the sounds where all over the place, I found the Avatons to be VERY shouty :rolleyes:
All over the place is s good description...
 
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KeithR

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Unless of course Keith in his search is open to moving back twds Zu.

The two remaining auditions are:

1. Stenheim Alumine Five (this Saturday)
2. Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Zu's Definition doesn't even exist yet. I always look forward to hearing Sean's creations and feel he is a talented designer who, like John Devore, takes a different path from the usual hifi direction. I've never liked a Druid really until the VI. Also, I have heard Phil's Def IV numerous times since I moved to Devore and haven't felt the desire to return. But I will never say never.
 

christoph

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But the tune audio room seems to sound good when they have good amplification since they did it in that room year after year and have good space. The sound seems to change more based on amps and gets better to the end
I can agree with that only in part because iIrc at least this year, the Avaton was demoed with the Elysium amp.
That is the exact amp that was used with the Animas the year I liked them the most.
But that fact didn't save the Avaton (at least it did not for me...) :rolleyes:
 

KeithR

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I think we've gone overboard on Tune Audio discussion, fellas. Why don't you start another thread on the brand. Thanks
 

bonzo75

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I can agree with that only in part because iIrc at least this year, the Avaton was demoed with the Elysium amp.
That is the exact amp that was used with the Animas the year I liked them the most.
But that fact didn't save the Avaton (at least it did not for me...) :rolleyes:

No. This year it was a trafomatic 300b. Trafomatic usually makes lower level amps but the designer makes his own trannies and can make anything, the Anima amp was something special and a one off. Their amps used to normally be listed for a few thousand that one in 2016 was being advertised at the show at 120k
 

spiritofmusic

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Keith is gonna have to speak a bit louder LOL.
 
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213Cobra

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More than a bit of revisionist history...you are convenienly forgetting about a lot of great speakers that were in many ways superior to the Zus t that time...

Not so. Especially since my initial choice of Zu in two systems in late 2004 and early 2005 was after extensive competitive review. There weren't then, and there aren't now, "a lot of great speakers..." There are ever only a tiny cluster of great anything. Definition 1.5 and Druid "2.8" had attributes that if polar graphed were more musically complete than anything else remotely close in price at the time. Definition 2 and Druid 4-08 widened their lead. Definition 4 in 2010 really had no close competitors and it outclassed most of what sold for 3X their price. Same for Druid 5 a few years later.

Comparing Definition 4 to v1.5 is a testament to how intensively Casey worked to improve his speakers and no one who was able to upgrade would go back to version 1.5. Same for original Druid and Druid 6. Yet 15 years ago and at any time since, these designs in their then-state-of-execution were as pleasurable and musically-convincing relative to the rest of the market as the new versions are today. Pick any price bracket -- there are only one or two speakers worth buying. Most of the market, including what we call the high end, churns out product as though vendors learn nothing along the way.

Phil
 

spiritofmusic

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Keith, can you spare $80-90k for the new Devore flagship Orangutan Reference 4-spkrs system?
 

KeithR

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Nope, not even close :( However, I will get to hear the O Ref right after my Stenheim audition this weekend - on all Nagra HD equipment. They also will have areas for the O 96 and Super Nine on EAR electronics.
 
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