King Cello Full Preamp - all set!

[flez007]

After many attempts to upgrade my trusty Eros tape preamp, and listening to as much as I could prior deciding the best preamp option for me, I decided to go after the only one that I did not heard at all!

I trusted the expert advice of many here at WBF and got in touch with Charles (aka Stellavox) to learn more about options to get a custom-made King/Cello full preamp.

After some attempts, I agreed to go for a brand new, full function (phono and tape), input jacks at the back and Mundorf caps version, waited for some several weeks and having constant communication with Charles regarding progress, pictures and other misc stuff in the building process.

The preamp arrived here just in time, no issues with its packing, transportation or physical damage...but... An "offending part" (Charles words) was generating some residual hum ... I got step by step instructions to have my local technician busy on fixing the boards and got it back some days ago back to my rack.

How does it sounds so far? - still breakin-in, but out if the box it sounds just great in all departments, frequency extension, detail rendering, tonal truthness and dynamics - it just extracts more out of tapes and vinyl and keeps me engaged to my system, which by the way has now NO TUBES in the audio chain except for my Havana DAC.

The K/C preamp placed my Mach/2 and Oppo digital sources to sleep since it is in the system, it created a larger performance gap between analog and digital sources, voices and acoustic instruments sound soooooo natural and fluid...hypnotical!

Thanks again Mr. King!

 

[mep]

The K/C preamp placed my Mach/2 and Oppo digital sources to sleep since it is in the system, it created a larger performance gap between analog and digital sources, voices and acoustic instruments sound soooooo natural and fluid...hypnotical!

Thanks again Mr. King!

Funny how that works for those who can listen to tape and digital vice those who have no ability to listen to tape and carp at those who do while sitting on the sidelines.

 

[LL21]

Congrats Flez!!!!!!!!!! Great news! Really happy to read this...enjoy! I swore to myself i would never go vinyl or tape and save myself the madness of multiple sources, spreading my investment rather than concentrating it in the best digital i could get (second hand), and having to buy multiple music formats. All of that said, i have to admit, i have once compared a Linn Klimax DS or whatever their top DAC is to a Linn Sondek 12 playing Jazz at the Pawnshop...'nuff said.

 

[flez007]

That is because you are smarter than me Lloyd - this is hell!

 

[flez007]

Funny how that works for those who can listen to tape and digital vice those who have no ability to listen to tape and carp at those who do while sitting on the sidelines.

LOL mep, I don't really know where you aimed this time, but I tend to agree....

 

[LL21]

That is because you are smarter than me Lloyd - this is hell!

nope...just equally crazy with a different system!

 

[flez007]

I had some friends last Thursday to hear additional comments on the K/C in my system, we were supposed to compare it with the Eros and record our findings, but were so happy listening tapes that we ended up commenting the performances rather than the sound quality, which is good.

We switched to digital for a while, and we all noticed that the tape and vinyl reproduction were more centered and deeper than digital, which presented a flatter but wider sound, then I realized that I was using a Magnan Vi IC from the K/C to the Gryphon, so I changed the cable for a silver one and the presentation opened and gained some additional spark at the upper registers, which was predictable.

I will move the K/C closer to the Gryphon to use my Siltech cable which I think will benefit from its better sonic signature, I am getting close to the final setup shortly.

 

[MylesBAstor]

LOL mep, I don't really know where you aimed this time, but I tend to agree....

Whoever "they" are probably have Mark on ignore anyway

 

[LL21]

I had some friends last Thursday to hear additional comments on the K/C in my system, we were supposed to compare it with the Eros and record our findings, but were so happy listening tapes that we ended up commenting the performances rather than the sound quality, which is good.

We switched to digital for a while, and we all noticed that the tape and vinyl reproduction were more centered and deeper than digital, which presented a flatter but wider sound, then I realized that I was using a Magnan Vi IC from the K/C to the Gryphon, so I changed the cable for a silver one and the presentation opened and gained some additional spark at the upper registers, which was predictable.
QUOTE]

Digital is not up to the SOTA sources...but getting there. Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mep]

In retrospect, I should have thought about my choice of words and the tone of them, but the devil on my shoulder was whispering in my ear and reminding me of the heat I took when I started the thread for people who could play back multiple sources to rank their preferences. I not only got attacked because the thread was exclusionary in nature, but then the attacks devolved into a analog vs. digital debate by people who had no basis of comparison. It was a huge bummer.

It is such a treat to be able to sit down and listen to tape. If listening to tape doesn’t put a big goofy grin on your face, something is dead wrong. If you are only playing back digits, it’s easy to convince yourself that you have it all. It does sound damn good. But if you can play back both digits and tape, tape will expose the digits. It’s just another level of liveness, realness, and naturalness that escapes everything I have heard up to 24/192 resolution. I do have the Mytek Stereo 192 DAC on order. I want to be able to hear DSD files and see if they close the gap.

I really do love having the ability to playback multiple sources and not be wedded to a single source. I love listening to LPs and I really do like my music server. The music server is a great opening act, but it doesn’t close the show at my house. I wouldn’t want to be without it though.

As for you Lloyd, you are staring at a fork in the road. I know you swore to yourself that you were going to restrict yourself to a single source. Back in the old days when men were men and sheep grazed at 60 mph (that’s 96.56 kph for the metric crowd), men prided themselves on having multiple sources to listen to. Somehow that got lost along the way when digital arrived and slayed the analog dragon for the masses. I can promise you that you have yet to hear what your system is truly capable of sounding like. And you won’t until some kind soul with a strong back shows up at your door with a really good R2R and some 15 ips 2 track tapes and opens your eyes and your ears and takes your system to a level you didn’t know it had. I feel fairly confident that anyone on this forum who presently plays back both digital and tape will tell you the same thing.

 

[RogerD]

I had some friends last Thursday to hear additional comments on the K/C in my system, we were supposed to compare it with the Eros and record our findings, but were so happy listening tapes that we ended up commenting the performances rather than the sound quality, which is good.

We switched to digital for a while, and we all noticed that the tape and vinyl reproduction were more centered and deeper than digital, which presented a flatter but wider sound, then I realized that I was using a Magnan Vi IC from the K/C to the Gryphon, so I changed the cable for a silver one and the presentation opened and gained some additional spark at the upper registers, which was predictable.

I will move the K/C closer to the Gryphon to use my Siltech cable which I think will benefit from its better sonic signature, I am getting close to the final setup shortly.

Cables can make a big difference in the sound of tape. I replaced my NBS master with a new Gotham quad4 cable,big mistake as the sound stage collapsed and everything moved back.
Tape is all about playback and getting closer to what's actually on the tape. This is why I have 3 and soon to be 4 different machines. It's nice to see so many enjoying the King/Cello preamp. Maybe someday others will add different machines and or preamps to hear the differences and hopefully increase their enjoyment from tape.

 

[flez007]

Cables can make a big difference in the sound of tape. I replaced my NBS master with a new Gotham quad4 cable,big mistake as the sound stage collapsed and everything moved back.
Tape is all about playback and getting closer to what's actually on the tape. This is why I have 3 and soon to be 4 different machines. It's nice to see so many enjoying the King/Cello preamp. Maybe someday others will add different machines and or preamps to hear the differences and hopefully increase their enjoyment from tape.

Agreed / I already knew the pros and cons of my Magnan cable, but with tape differences were more obvious...

 

[flez007]

Here are some pics

 

[MylesBAstor]

One suggestion I might make is to shorten the distance between the R2R and the K/C. I assume you're running the heads direct out the back of the machine? You might try if you can, shortening the length to 24 inches if possible.

 

[rockitman]

One suggestion I might make is to shorten the distance between the R2R and the K/C. I assume you're running the heads direct out the back of the machine? You might try if you can, shortening the length to 24 inches if possible.

Myles,

I fail to see the sonic advantage of such a short cable. I have both a 1 meter and a 1.5 meter option from my head's on my two wired out heads and I can assure you that there is no sonic degradation with the longer silver litz wire.

 

[flez007]

One suggestion I might make is to shorten the distance between the R2R and the K/C. I assume you're running the heads direct out the back of the machine? You might try if you can, shortening the length to 24 inches if possible.

Good point Myles, I am actually using the Technics deck with 1 mt long cables to the K/C preamp, I have shorter ones of lesser quality and liked the earlier better.

The Nagra is waiting for space at my technician to fix a tape tension issue, once back I will rearrange the setup accordingly.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[flez007]

Myles,

I fail to see the sonic advantage of such a short cable. I have both a 1 meter and a 1.5 meter option from my head's on my two wired out heads and I can assure you that there is no sonic degradation with the longer silver litz wire.

The 1 mt long cable I am using is exactly that configuration Christian ( silver-litz wire )

 

[Mike Lavigne]

One suggestion I might make is to shorten the distance between the R2R and the K/C. I assume you're running the heads direct out the back of the machine? You might try if you can, shortening the length to 24 inches if possible.

the most important and most 'system affecting cable' is always either from the cartridge to the phono stage or from the heads to the first amplification stage. you are dealing with such a tiny signal. i've not done any comparisons with tape heads per se. but i've done enough with phono cables to always pay close attention. Ki wired my direct out to the King Cello on my A-820. he did use about 2 meters, but he did use some quite special 'nuclear rated' cable :b. i have no doubt that a shorter cable might be audibly better.

my point is that if you can shorten it, you will likely hear an improvement.

 

[rockitman]

my point is that if you can shorten it, you will likely hear an improvement.

I'm not sure that I could tell between 24" or 36" cable length. All of the best phono cables I have seen or use (Nordost Valhalla) are at least 1 meter in length. Based on my preamp gain (volume) between phono and tape, they are pretty close in output (I think tape heads are higher) however small that micro voltage is. Myles kind of made it sound like that 24" will sound better than 36". Perhaps a highly precision voltage measurement device could see a difference. I doubt us humans could pereive (hear it). YMMV of course.

best,

Chris

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles,

I fail to see the sonic advantage of such a short cable. I have both a 1 meter and a 1.5 meter option from my head's on my two wired out heads and I can assure you that there is no sonic degradation with the longer silver litz wire.

Here's why Chris: you're not dealing with a phono cartridge. One always need to keep in mind the impedance that the head is looking at and usually the lower the better ergo the shorter the length, the better. That one big reason ICs will sound different and make a big difference with a direct out deck. So besides a short length, you want a low impedance cable. One tipoff in my experience is either rolled off lows or highs.