LampizatOr Baltic 3

[Miki70]

Hi Miguel, the Brimar rectifier is very punchy so that would be a good choice. Not many know about the e80cc tube type, possibly as it was only made by two european manufacturers, however the regular Tungsram with yellow or red label would also work very well and is pretty cheap.

FYI only. Comparison of Tungsram E80CC, Amperex E80CC, and Amperex 7316PQ - Jon L - Tubes Asylum

FYI only. Comparison of Tungsram E80CC, Amperex E80CC, and Amperex 7316PQ - Jon L - Tubes Asylum

www.audioasylum.com

Hi Marc,

My Lampi BALTIC 3 came with the following tubes :

— RECTI : 5C3S
— OUTPUT : NO BRAND Chinese 12AU7s X 2
— INPUT : Chinese Psvane 6SN7GT Blue Balls X 2

View attachment 100900


Following your kind suggestions for my first complete set of rolling tubes for my Baltic 3 ( E11 ) with big hopes that would outperform the ones that came with Factory :

— RECTI : Brimar — 5Z4G 5Z4GY CV1863 KB/FE STC NOS BOXED VALVE TUBE 1972
— OUTPUT : Tungsram e80cc PAIR X 2
— INPUT : 1956 Soviet Military NOS MELZ 6H8C Metalbase tubes PAIR X 2

View attachment 100899

I founded that, yes first arriving, the Brimar Recti did impacted the sound in a good way, maintaining the marvelous B3 liquidity attribute and bringing a more balanced sound all around.

Then the Melz 1578 pair inputs : more detail and better focused, liquidity maintained ...

And last, the Tungsram e80cc ( Reds ), which hit another notch of focus, resolution and gain overall, but here is the interesting outcome, although the sound is more cohesive and neutral, i found that from the beginning when adding the e80cc there was this lack of liquidity that the Chinese had on table or perhaps they are not good or even not broken in enough, ? …BUT most importantly also more dryer, so liquidity diminished quite a bit — ( i thought that maybe the e80cc might have been damaged ?? ) --so today I started rolling the tubes and the only thing i took off initially was the Brimar and put the factory 5C3S instead back and although less focused the swap ended up in more liquid and satisfied listening, again.

Now im listening to my B3 with the factory CHINESE 12AU7s and the BRIMAR back in place...Liquidity is on the charts but also these Chinese are less focused and clear but apparently more ope, big and liquid than the e80cc narrow, higher gain, more resolution, focused and dryer presentation. This seems to conclude that Brimar + e80cc at least her in my system is equal less liquidity.

For me: Resolution, focus & higher gain are great but would really need the more open and liquid sound...

Questions :

--Any other choice variable of these e80cc or any other with this lacking characteristics : more open and liquid sound ?
--From New : how much time should these e80cc need to fully deliver their best ?

Another alternative to the lacking qualities of these e80cc ( if they should have it ) is that maybe these are damaged ? nevertheless i read somewhere about the dryness these Tungsram bring to the equation.

In the other hand and just for complementing info: my server is not even close to the TAIKO EXTREME but definitely is no slouch:
- Intel processor 8 core + Asus Rog Maximus XIII with TAIKO ATX powered by a Paul Hynes DR7T ( among some )

Thanks again
Miguel

 

[Sablon Audio]

Miguel, assuming you have given the tubes 50-100 hours of playing time (there definitely is a ‘bump up’ with the Tungsram after a while) then I would look next at fuse and cabling as the Tungsram are likely exposing weaknesses elsewhere. Whilst other 12au7 options might give you a warmer sound, you will take a step backwards in resolution.

 

[marty]

Based on the positive reviews for the Brimar recti mentioned by Marc at Sablon in a previous post, I bought one and had the opportunity to listen to it for a 200 hours recently. It is a surprisingly excellent recti and perhaps the best value recti of several I like including the USA Amperex 5U4G and Goran's favorite RCA. It is a musically balanced tube with a big bottom and perhaps can be thought of as the poor man's Takatsuki in some ways. However, it doesn't have that tube's refinements although It does have a lucid upper midrange and therefore sounds a tad less dark than the Tak. I think it would be a very fine tube in many systems. It really does a fine job across the board from frequency balance to dynamics. Nice find! And for about 40 bucks, it's a genuine wow.

 

[bonzo75]

Based on the positive reviews for the Brimar recti mentioned by Marc at Sablon

Sablon is Mark. Marc is his client, spiritofmusic. Not sure Mark wants to be confused with Marc

 

[jonstine]

I

Hi Marc,

My Lampi BALTIC 3 came with the following tubes :

— RECTI : 5C3S
— OUTPUT : NO BRAND Chinese 12AU7s X 2
— INPUT : Chinese Psvane 6SN7GT Blue Balls X 2

View attachment 100900


Following your kind suggestions for my first complete set of rolling tubes for my Baltic 3 ( E11 ) with big hopes that would outperform the ones that came with Factory :

— RECTI : Brimar — 5Z4G 5Z4GY CV1863 KB/FE STC NOS BOXED VALVE TUBE 1972
— OUTPUT : Tungsram Ecc80 PAIR X 2
— INPUT : 1956 Soviet Military NOS MELZ 6H8C Metalbase tubes PAIR X 2

View attachment 100899

I founded that, yes first arriving, the Brimar Recti did impacted the sound in a good way, maintaining the marvelous B3 liquidity attribute and bringing a more balanced sound all around.

Then the Melz 1578 pair inputs : more detail and better focused, liquidity maintained ...

And last, the Tungsram ecc80s ( Reds ), which hit another notch of focus, resolution and gain overall, but here is the interesting outcome, although the sound is more cohesive and neutral, i found that from the beginning when adding the ecc80s there was this lack of liquidity that the Chinese had on table or perhaps they are not good or even not broken in enough, ? …BUT most importantly also more dryer, so liquidity diminished quite a bit — ( i thought that maybe the ecc80s might have been damaged ?? ) --so today I started rolling the tubes and the only thing i took off initially was the Brimar and put the factory 5C3S instead back and although less focused the swap ended up in more liquid and satisfied listening, again.

Now im listening to my B3 with the factory CHINESE 12AU7s and the BRIMAR back in place...Liquidity is on the charts but also these Chinese are less focused and clear but apparently more ope, big and liquid than the Ecc80 narrow, higher gain, more resolution, focused and dryer presentation. This seems to conclude that Brimar + Ecc80 at least her in my system is equal less liquidity.

For me: Resolution, focus & higher gain are great but would really need the more open and liquid sound...

Questions :

--Any other choice variable of these ecc80 or any other with this lacking characteristics : more open and liquid sound ?
--From New : how much time should these ecc80s need to fully deliver their best ?

Another alternative to the lacking qualities of these ecc80 ( if they should have it ) is that maybe these are damaged ? nevertheless i read somewhere about the dryness these Tungsram bring to the equation.

In the other hand and just for complementing info: my server is not even close to the TAIKO EXTREME but definitely is no slouch:
- Intel processor 8 core + Asus Rog Maximus XIII with TAIKO ATX powered by a Paul Hynes DR7T ( among some )

Thanks again
Miguel

Miguel, I replaced the generic Shuguang 12AU7 tubes (most likely what you have as well) in my B3 with new Gold Lion ECC82/12AU7 tubes from Upscale Audio. I selected the “Kevin’s Stash” and “Cryo” options. Remarkable clear, open, detailed high end with these.

Looks like they might not be listed on the site anymore, but here’s a link:

Gold Lion ECC82 / B749 / 12AU7

Gold Lion ECC82 / 12AU7 Incredible current production re-issue of the legendary Genalex. Very low noise and microphonics. These tubes have beautiful and dynamic midrange texture, airy highs, controlled, tight bass. Excellent resolution. These tubes tested extremely low in noise and microphonics...

upscaleaudio.com

 

[Miki70]

I


Miguel, I replaced the generic Shuguang 12AU7 tubes (most likely what you have as well) in my B3 with new Gold Lion ECC82/12AU7 tubes from Upscale Audio. I selected the “Kevin’s Stash” and “Cryo” options. Remarkable clear, open, detailed high end with these.

Looks like they might not be listed on the site anymore, but here’s a link:

Gold Lion ECC82 / B749 / 12AU7

Gold Lion ECC82 / 12AU7 Incredible current production re-issue of the legendary Genalex. Very low noise and microphonics. These tubes have beautiful and dynamic midrange texture, airy highs, controlled, tight bass. Excellent resolution. These tubes tested extremely low in noise and microphonics...

upscaleaudio.com

Thanks, i have put my eyes on those !

I actually like what the e80cc Tungsram has to offer, but for me they miss some attributes that i like very much, i guess is system dependent

They have this amazing resolution and clearness but ( at least in my system ) if they had a bit more bloom, luscious and texture, they would fit perfect in my system and taste, unfortunately after some songs it gets a bit fatiguing.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

I actually like what the e80cc Tungsram has to offer, but for me they miss some attributes that i like very much, i guess is system dependent

They have this amazing resolution and clearness but ( at least in my system ) if they had a bit more bloom, luscious and texture, they would fit perfect in my system and taste, unfortunately after some songs it gets a bit fatiguing.

I felt quite similar to what you're describing when I first tried a pair of Tungsram e80cc for my B3, at the time they replaced a pair of Mullard cv4003 boxplate which to me was more soft, warm, musical and enjoyable in every way. I thought back then that I actually wanted this added "warmness" and "dullness" and that it made things sound more "analog". Since then I've done quite a journey with cables for my entire system, the same with fuses for all my electronics and I've also gone through a bunch of tubes and rectifiers. Today I'm using a pair of Tungsram e80cc (silver plates) and simply couldn't be happier with the sound I have.

I think that sometimes we read about tubes and we buy it and expect a miracle, but every system is different, matching and tweaking is something that's done over time and with a goal or vision, maybe it requires other changes to shine or come through properly. We all have different ideas when we're building our systems, we got different taste, listen to different music etc. Sometimes it also takes some time and getting used to appreciate a different sound. Not saying that you should like the Tungsrams though.

My current line-up today consists of:
2 x Tungsram e80cc silver plates
2 x RCA 6f8g with Woo adapters
1 x Bendix 6106 (looks funny together with those tall 6f8g's)

For my amplifier I use:
2 x RCA 12bh7

Cables:
The new Sablon Audio Evo model all the way through which has played a huge part. Total game changer! I'm only missing 2 power cables for my switch and USB re-clocker and I know that this is the best upgrade I can do to my system in the future. The funny thing here is that every cable I tried felt like the best, like it was the biggest change and improvement. In retrospect I think it was probably more of 1+1=4 scenario where everything just got better together, both cables and electronics, the more cables I added. Also it feels good to know that they have been built by someone with a Baltic 3...

Fuses:
Synergistic Research Purple, I tried QSA Yellow first but preferred SR Purple. The QSA was a dynamic monster and a nice showcasing for what fuses can do, but at the time I felt similar as with the Tungsram. In my system today maybe they would have worked better because I'm no longer afraid of "clarity" and "neutral", words that I used to despise but today see more as "resolution". Either way I think upgrading the stock fuses for all electronics is a no brainer.

Anti-Vibration/Isolation:
Graphite Audio footers and cable lifters. Not much to say about them, I like them. Made in Poland, the country of many great things.

My system sounds soooooo different than 2 years ago when I got my B3. It's a constant journey. And it's so much fun along the way.

 

[Sablon Audio]

That’s a great summary of progress @VoicesInMyHead and we can all learn something from this.

For me, I was complacent in enjoying a great sound from my Riviera amplifier over the past year using some grail level philips tubes. Yesterday I changed them to an ancient pair of Tungsram and experienced some wonderful improvements in definition and energy.

It seems there is always something we can do better and should keep an open mind. The Baltic is quite a monster if you persevere with tweaking it. When I bought it, I could have had any dac and also knew Horizon was imminent but haven’t regretted my choice for a minute.

 

[sidvee]

Other than the cost differential, to my ears the B3 sounded better, more livelier perhaps (it was not in my system). Anyways I have requested the dealer to loan me a big 7 mk2, for a few days so I can compare both dac's in my own system. Will report with more detail once I do that.
Cheers,
Sid

This is a no go, I was informed that the Big 7 has been discontinued.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[bonzo75]

This is a no go, I was informed that the Big 7 has been discontinued.
Cheers,
Sid

RIP. B7 was revolutionary from a digital perspective, and from educating audiophiles on price to quality perspective compared in modern hifi

 

[christoph]

This is a no go, I was informed that the Big 7 has been discontinued.
Cheers,
Sid

I just checked on the official website https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/big-7-dac and under "Legacy Products" you can still order the Big7 Mk3, GG3 and Horizon
Where is your info from?

 

[Golum]

Unfortunatelly hectic website does not really help if you’re not carefull and know what you look for..just my two cents

 

[christoph]

Unfortunatelly hectic website does not really help if you’re not carefull and know what you look for..just my two cents

So are the "Legacy Products" discontinued or not?

 

[Golum]

So are the "Legacy Products" discontinued or not?

Absolutely no idea…

 

[Blake]

It would make no sense to me at least, to discontinue these "legacy" models (Big 7, Golden Gate, Pacific), because the product line would then jump from an Atlantic to a Horizon. That is a pretty huge leap in performance and price.

As @christoph notes above, there is an "Order" button next to each of these legacy DAC's. Therefore, I am guessing they are not being discontinued?

 

[christoph]

It would make no sense to me at least, to discontinue these "legacy" models (Big 7, Golden Gate, Pacific), because the product line would then jump from an Atlantic to a Horizon. That is a pretty huge leap in performance and price.

As @christoph notes above, there is an "Order" button next to each of these legacy DAC's. Therefore, I am guessing they are not being discontinued?

Your explanation with the price gap makes perfect sense to me.

 

[sidvee]

I just checked on the official website https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/big-7-dac and under "Legacy Products" you can still order the Big7 Mk3, GG3 and Horizon
Where is your info from?

I am based in India. So the dealer here hinted that, perhaps based on the fact that it was moved to a legacy product and it may be phased out in the future. Anyways he has some older units in stock, so I am still trying to get a home audition of the big 7 mk2 (he does not have the newer mk3), though till there is clarity on the availability of these models I would be hesitant to upgrade.
Anyways this is what is quoted on the Lampi website for legacy products:
"
Legacy products are our classic line DACs that are not discontinued, but they are made strictly to a custom order. They will not be - from 2023 onwards - developed further and in the main lineup of Lampizator portfolio.
Legacy products are our great pride, they put us on the map of high-end world and we decided to keep them for as long as the parts and components allow us to do so.

Legacy products will have custom order details, parameters and specs and customized look, but longer waiting time (usually up to 2 months). By doing so, we want to streamline the current portfolio to be available in few days only. "

Cheers,
Sid

 

[christoph]

Anyways he has some older units in stock, so I am still trying to get a home audition of the big 7 mk2 (he does not have the newer mk3)

Maybe that's the reason why he wanted you to believe that the Big7 is discontinued, to get rid of his own "old" stock Big7 Mk2

If that's the case, I would defo change the dealer

 

[sidvee]

Maybe that's the reason why he wanted you to believe that the Big7 is discontinued, to get rid of his own "old" stock Big7 Mk2

If that's the case, I would defo change the dealer

I don't think so, as the dealer is fairly straight forward, I have bought many components from him. However as it stands today, even I am reluctant to test the Big7 due to the legacy status on the site, as I would not buy it even if it sounds better than the B3. Also there are very limited dealers in India, afaik only 2 (and one is the distributor).
Personally I am very satisfied with the Baltic 3 (not engine 11), and will use it for a couple of years and then consider upgrading.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[xdaggersoul]

Sent in my Engine 53 Baltic 3 for service a couple of months back and received my upgraded B3 with Engine 11 a week before Christmas. Definitely sounds better than the older engine 53. Go for the upgrade if you can, worth every $$.
B3 has 50 hours on it so far.