Let's Get A Consensus Of The Best DAC's In The Market Today

[microstrip]

There is no best dac in the market today. The best dac in the market always comes tomorrow. Best way to continue getting on a non stop dac train is to join a dac manufacturer actively promoting their dac so that you get favorable treatment from them and not having too much switching cost the next time you catch another train.

Yes, there is no best DAC today, yesterday and tomorrow. At best , all we have here is people sharing their experience in their systems - sorry I appreciate but do not valuate collective listening, the Houdini experiences - and their interesting opinions. It is why WBF is a great forum.

 

[microstrip]

micro I disagree with everything you stated in the above quote except for "YMMV"

Steve,
I could illustrate my post with real examples, but I prefer not to do it.
Please note I am addressing top equipment, not the run-of.the-mill.

 

[PeterA]

I have a life outside this hobby.

This is my nomination for the quote of the year.
Thank you Francisco. You made my evening.

 

[PeterA]

Steve,
I could illustrate my post with real examples, but I prefer not to do it.
Please note I am addressing top equipment, not the run-of.the-mill.

Ah, but yours is just a data point and you are presenting it as fact.

 

[microstrip]

I abandoned digital years back because it was too expensive to do both it and analog at a high level, and the digital world was far from finding stability. From where I sit it's largely specialized computer technology which in computer technology history puts it around WWII - early fifties.

If we just focused on the CD format - where 99% of the interesting digital music existed - the system was stable since long. But probably for a reviewer it would be an hard job to ignore HiRez. I often say that just for the music I could have stopped at the beautiful and excellent sounding Metronome's.

I am curious about one thing ... do any of the top DAC manufacturers make top ADC devices? I speculate that a top ADC manufacturer would have insight into what makes a top DAC. Any such relationships in the digital audio world?

dCS comes from the professional side of the sound reproduction - they manufactures the first 24 bit ADC . In fact they started their audio life manufacturing and selling SOTA ADCs and only after they built the DACs. See https://dcsaudio.com/timeline

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve,
I could illustrate my post with real examples, but I prefer not to do it.
Please note I am addressing top equipment, not the run-of.the-mill.

My point was, that you have truly had some bad luck in the sale of some very good electronics.Plus on the solid state side I recently saw advertised in the WBF classifieds a Select ll at such a low price that one would be crazy not to. buy it.. So big reward for the purchaser.
There is no absolute and I totally agree with you about the rapidly changing market.This is another reason why for me, at least, a trade up program makes sense.

 

[microstrip]

My point was, that you have truly had some bad luck in the sale of some very good electronics.Plus on the solid state side I recently saw advertised in the WBF classifieds a Select ll at levels that one would be crazy not to. buy.. So big reward for the purchaser.
There is no absolute and I totally agree with you about the rapidly changing market.This is another reason why for me, at least, a trade up program makes sense.

Surely, there are never absolutes in this hobby. My point was addressing electronics in general not particularly DACs - their devaluation seems to have no rules!

And yes, fortunately most top DACs have good upgrade or trade-in programs.

 

[bonzo75]

I find it curious that no interest is expressed on WBF towards Merging Technology equipment used in recording a growing amount of Classical and Electronic music in DSD

Edit Mike L. got there as I went to hit post

Larry (astrotoy) has the Merging NADAC for his MCH.

 

[still-one]

To quote Dave Wilson, “every system needs a tube“

Just goes to show he wasn’t right about everything.

 

[Legolas]

I abandoned digital years back because it was too expensive to do both it and analog at a high level, and the digital world was far from finding stability. From where I sit it's largely specialized computer technology which in computer technology history puts it around WWII - early fifties.

I am curious about one thing ... do any of the top DAC manufacturers make top ADC devices? I speculate that a top ADC manufacturer would have insight into what makes a top DAC. Any such relationships in the digital audio world?

Aries Cerat, there are many actually.

 

[tima]

Aries Cerat, there are many actually.

Thanks. Although I don't look for it, I don't hear of ADC/DAC makers who advertise based on the use of their gear in the making of audio recording media or digital formats. I would think a claim about, for example, recording a symphony performance using their ADC could be a great vehicle for fostering interest in its playback with their DAC - especially if someone in the recording process endorsed them. Just speculating, this is not my world.

 

[iaxel]

From my expereince, only having the best of both worlds (tubes and solid-state) will allow reaching the best digital reproduction.
As I see it, it's similar to having multiple cartridges/arm/turntables/phono-stage in the analog world. And that's something that many of us have and enjoy.
That is why I don't see a reason to have a similar configuration on the digital front end.

 

[wisnon]

There is no best dac in the market today. The best dac in the market always comes tomorrow. Best way to continue getting on a non stop dac train is to join a dac manufacturer actively promoting their dac so that you get favorable treatment from them and not having too much switching cost the next time you catch another train.

I don't fully agree. While best is subjective, there are many great Dacs out there now and its horses for courses. If you get any of the current top Dacs , there is no real need to switch any time soon, unless U get a case of insatiable nervosa. Having said that, yes if U fear nervosa, U should best get into a Dac ecosystem to get the best upgrade terms.

If I could afford it, it would be Horizon all the way for me. The way Lukasz was trembling at the quality of his own development ( that surpassed even his initial expectations) was the clincher for me. ( I have known him a long time, so I can tell what he really thinks. I can read him like a book). This Horizon is something else. I am already stunned at what the Baltic and TRP can do if set up right and the Horizon takes it 2 to 3 notches above that.

Tang, I would advise U to get an audition and judge for yourself. (My hunch is that U will be hooked). I for one would love to see U and your humor active in Lampi thread! LoL. U are one of my favorite posters. With U, who needs Netflix for entertainment??

Kindest regards and much respect.

 

[Gregadd]

What is best is subjective on a personal basis. There is an absolute best.
The problem is what is the criteria and who gets to decide. If only we had a "mirror on the wall."

 

[rbbert]

Thanks. Although I don't look for it, I don't hear of ADC/DAC makers who advertise based on the use of their gear in the making of audio recording media or digital formats. I would think a claim about, for example, recording a symphony performance using their ADC could be a great vehicle for fostering interest in its playback with their DAC - especially if someone in the recording process endorsed them. Just speculating, this is not my world.

Not all are necessarily top-of-the-line DAC manufacturers, but I think Mytek, Ayre, Grimm, Merging and Pyramix all make high-quality ADC's, although how many are used by major labels, or even any of the larger minor labels, is not widely advertised.

 

[Daverich4]

i will agree that tomorrows best dac is better than today's best one, since we are still on a steep digital learning curve.

I’m an extremely junior member here so I’m hesitant to ask this but my first DAC would have been the one in my Sony CDP-101. That was almost 40 years ago. After 4 decades aren’t we pretty far up the curve of the design of high end DACs?

 

[LL21]

I’m an extremely junior member here so I’m hesitant to ask this but my first DAC would have been the one in my Sony CDP-101. That was almost 40 years ago. After 4 decades aren’t we pretty far up the curve of the design of high end DACs?

I would imagine we probably are reasonably up the curve in digital..but then again...there is always better, faster, more in life.

And one has to look no further than turntables...a far older technology and yet there are new TTs that I understand (not a TT guy myself) are pushing the performance envelope further relative to even 10-20 years ago when again people would think we were 'pretty far up the curve' on TT technology. Including for those who used to own legendary TT like the Rockport Sirius or Thorens [ ] and now own American Sound or Airforce Techdas Ones (and of course there is now the Airforce Techdas Zero).

I suppose as soon as someone has made a new pace setter...others try to beat it. Ever the way. And I do think there is much yet to be done in digital...an example is servers and how much the leaders in design have identified challenges to transferring information to the DAC...

 

[Lee]

Not all are necessarily top-of-the-line DAC manufacturers, but I think Mytek, Ayre, Grimm, Merging and Pyramix all make high-quality ADC's, although how many are used by major labels, or even any of the larger minor labels, is not widely advertised.

dCS has made a high quality ADC that has been used on many famous recordings.

 

[Lee]

I’m an extremely junior member here so I’m hesitant to ask this but my first DAC would have been the one in my Sony CDP-101. That was almost 40 years ago. After 4 decades aren’t we pretty far up the curve of the design of high end DACs?

You would think but things are getting better all the time. Noise floors are lowering and linearity is improving.

 

[Alrainbow]

Just goes to show he wasn’t right about everything.

Do all studios use tube equipment ? Do live events use tubes
I think tubes ad positives but I also think they can hind warts too