Line Magnetic LM-222 Speakers

[facten]

I have had a Line Magnetic 518IA integrated amplifier since early 2016, purchased it through Goldprint Audio in North Carolina. I have been very pleased with it, zero operating issues and with NOS tubes excepting the 845s it sounds really good. I haven't opened the amp up so I'll just assume that the build quality is there based upon my experience with it. Personally I wouldn't hesitate buying another LM integrated , say an 805IA or the newer model of the one I have .

Goldprint supplied my integrated via the US importer Jonathan Halpern of Tone Imports. Though you went through Grant Fidelity direct from the factory it might be worth contacting Jonathan to at least understand if there is US service should you run into a problem with your preamp.

 

[ihmeyers]

I have had a Line Magnetic 518IA integrated amplifier since early 2016, purchased it through Goldprint Audio in North Carolina. I have been very pleased with it, zero operating issues and with NOS tubes excepting the 845s it sounds really good. I haven't opened the amp up so I'll just assume that the build quality is there based upon my experience with it. Personally I wouldn't hesitate buying another LM integrated , say an 805IA or the newer model of the one I have .

I don't know what affiliation if any Grant Fidelity has with the US importer of Line Magnetic Jonathan Halpern of Tone Imports, but maybe inquire about service in the US if nothing else. Goldprint supplied my integrated via Jonathan's supply.

When I inquired with the Euro LM distributor about their speakers, they forwarded my e-mail to Jonathan who offered to get me a pair of LM-222. Cost would have been $12.5k, 50% up front. Wait time at least 3 months. After I ordered the LM preamp from Rachel at Grant Fidelity I asked her about the speakers. First she said she thought she couldn't get them, then said the LM factory would accept the order because they had a couple of pairs in stock. She said that they would ship the speakers when they shipped the preamp, which they did. The preamp they had to build for me special order because they don't typically make a 117V version.

I too have had no issues with the preamp, and had never heard any complaints about LM's build quality before. Trust me though, if you saw the speakers you would NEVER believe the the same company made the 518IA and these speakers. I'm guessing none of the US or Canadian importers actually opened up the speakers and saw what was inside.

 

[facten]

I too have had no issues with the preamp, and had never heard any complaints about LM's build quality before. Trust me though, if you saw the speakers you would NEVER believe the the same company made the 518IA and these speakers. I'm guessing none of the US or Canadian importers actually opened up the speakers and saw what was inside.

I believe you, the pictures you posted are pretty self evident; and surprising. Sorry that you've encountered this.

 

[ihmeyers]

I'm hopeful stands will be here this week. Timbernation is finishing them now.

p.s. the stands quality is as bad as the speakers. The legs are unequal lengths, the finish quality is poor, and the bottom of the stand is unfinished with stain dripping all over it. After paying $1200 for them I am having someone else build me another pair because I can't bear to look at these.

p.p.s. About a week after I got them Timbernation sent me a survey from Survey Monkey asking for my opinion. As you could imagine, I rated them awful in every category, except initial customer service. My contact there, a woman named Jess, was always pleasant and professional. You'd think after seeing that scathing review someone would have contacted me apologizing and asking how they could make it up to me. Nope. Radio silence

Most people don't give a crap about the quality of their work or products, yet their prices go up almost weekly. Not just in audio too. Deal with any of the big shipping companies lately? I use both Fed-Ex and DHL and they have managed to damage five straight packages I've shipped, Must be some kind of record, no?

 

[djsina2]

So what was it about these speakers that you had to have? With the $3400 shipping it seems your total cost is still up there.

 

[ihmeyers]

So what was it about these speakers that you had to have? With the $3400 shipping it seems your total cost is still up there.

I guess it was the mystique. What few reviews I could find were good and it fit what I was trying to do, build a vintage sound type system. The original shipping quote to me was $1200. It was only when they had left the factory for air transport that Rachel from GF contacted me and said they wanted $2300 more or they would send them back to the factory. What were my real options at that point? I was well and truly screwed at this point. Rachel said she had nothing to do with the shipping cost (which I believe) but that she was just a third party in this and the transaction was between me and the LM factory.

Had I known someone was going to extort another $2,300 from me for shipping the speakers I never would have bought them. I'm trying to make the best of what was a really crappy experience. I do really like the preamp though. I certainly won't buy any equipment from China again.

 

[djsina2]

I bought a new LM amp many years ago from the Tone empire. The tube cage was damaged in shipment. Never was able to get that replaced even though I purchased through the authorized channel. I think these days in general it’s good to buy from countries that are not your enemy.

I’ve also had bad luck with two Timbernation pieces and would not buy from them again.

 

[ihmeyers]

I’ve also had bad luck with two Timbernation pieces and would not buy from them again.

I wish I would have known that before I purchased the stands. I looked for reviews on them and couldn't find much.

Legit, I am a hack when it comes to woodworking and I could have done better. The support legs are different lengths (about 1.5" difference) for crying out loud. I don't think they care much though because like I said, no one ever contacted me about it when I said how dissatisfied I was.

 

[Solypsa]

@ihmeyers sorry you have such a rough experience.

Whats the plan? Make them better or move on?

 

[ihmeyers]

I've already improved them. Judiciously dampening the cabinet and Dynamatting the driver really helped. I have Audio Note banana jacks I'd like to install but the stock banana jacks have epoxy all over the back of the connectors and I don't want to mess with it. The wiring seems cheap too and the crossover is potted so I have no idea what's inside. It's sounds good now with a DHT preamp and an SET amp (I have 4 or 5 top choose from). The driver itself must be really good. I wish they'd sell just the driver because I would try to find someone to build a speaker around it.

I've complained only because I have never seen $12,000 speakers that need so much work to sound good. They ask a lot of money from something that's basically a science project. I am really surprised Tone imports them because I find it hard to believe that his stock ones would sound any better than mine did.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

1 month update. Speakers are sounding much better. It's all the driver which I guess is pretty nice. The build quality is shockingly bad, I mean off the charts bad. The 35 cent insulation lining cut into pieces, you can see in the photos above. The driver has a combination of wood screws and lag bolts holding it to the baffle. No rhyme or reason. One speaker had more lag bolts. The other more wood screws. Clearly they used whatever they had sitting around. All of them loose. One of the screws couldn't even be reset without using wood fill. Cosmetic only, but the brass name plate on the front of the speaker has the speaker model # engraved backwards. The characters are what you would see if you held it up to a mirror. I can't believe these speakers are imported into the U.S. and sell for more than $12k no less. The workmanship is pure junk. There's a pair of a higher level model on US Audiomart now for $35k.

I bought a LM preamp from the factory (through Grant Fidelity as well) when I bought the speakers. It sounds really nice but I can only imagine what it looks like internally and what it would be like to have to repair.

Anyone with any LM experience have anything to add?

Well, are they offering any returns? What do you want to do with this situation?

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I've already improved them. Judiciously dampening the cabinet and Dynamatting the driver really helped. I have Audio Note banana jacks I'd like to install but the stock banana jacks have epoxy all over the back of the connectors and I don't want to mess with it. The wiring seems cheap too and the crossover is potted so I have no idea what's inside. It's sounds good now with a DHT preamp and an SET amp (I have 4 or 5 top choose from). The driver itself must be really good. I wish they'd sell just the driver because I would try to find someone to build a speaker around it.

I've complained only because I have never seen $12,000 speakers that need so much work to sound good. They ask a lot of money from something that's basically a science project. I am really surprised Tone imports them because I find it hard to believe that his stock ones would sound any better than mine did.

But are you going to make a complaint to the seller? Maybe they can sweeten the deal somehow?

 

[ihmeyers]

Well, are they offering any returns? What do you want to do with this situation?

I thought about lodging a PayPal complaint but have not. I don't want to send it back because I don't have boxes and shipping will likely be $250 each way. Plus, there is no real way for them to fix it without pretty much rebuilding it. I shouldn't be so sanguine about it, but I will likely just write it off as a bad experience and never deal with them again.

 

[Solypsa]

Shipping likely about 4x to 6x that if they are going to China....

 

[ihmeyers]

Shipping likely about 4x to 6x that if they are going to China....

No, AMR meant the stands I believe, which came from Pennsylvania.

Shipping from China on the preamp and speakers was $3,500. I NEVER would have ordered the speakers if I knew shipping was going to be that much. I was charged $1200 upfront which I was lead to believe would cover it. After the speakers had left the factory the freight forwarder told Grant Fidelity I needed to pay $2,200 more for my packages to be put on a DHL plane. At that point I was pretty much screwed. Like I said, I never would have added on the speakers if I knew shipping would be so high. (see communication to me below)



Hi Ian,

The goods have been packed in custom wood crates now. Please see attached pictures.

We are running into exponential overbudget on shipping now:

We pre-quoted freight based an estimate as per Aliexpress listing ($750...thought it shouldn't be off too much by blow up $250, plus packaging fees etc), but apparently the Aliexpress listing estimate on shipping cost is entirely off. Chances they did estimate based on actual speaker weight only, but courier air freight goes by volume weight for bulky goods such as speakers.

Here are the 'after packaging' dimension of the two products from the freight forwwarder:

Column 1: Scale weight - kg
Column 2: Length (cm)
Column 3: Width (cm)
Column 4: Height (cm)
Column 5: Volume Weight - kg (by DHL weight calculation formula)


Here is the total shipping cost we are billed for:

USD9.8/KG X Volume weight 328KGS+DHL Surcharge USD180+ Special Crate handling USD100+ Labor Surcharge USD42= USD3536.40 BY DHL Express

As mentioned before, if the freight is slightly over budgeted $1000, we can certainly absorb with our rather thin margin. However, in this case, it is absolutely not possible for us to cover the over budget.

Please kindly top up the freight of $3536-$1200 = US$2336 by wire transfer ASAP. The freight forwarder is holding the goods to release them upon receiving freight payment. If we are not shipping them, we have to pay for a dead weight charges as a penalty, because the air shipping space has been booked.

 

[adrianywu]

I've already improved them. Judiciously dampening the cabinet and Dynamatting the driver really helped. I have Audio Note banana jacks I'd like to install but the stock banana jacks have epoxy all over the back of the connectors and I don't want to mess with it. The wiring seems cheap too and the crossover is potted so I have no idea what's inside. It's sounds good now with a DHT preamp and an SET amp (I have 4 or 5 top choose from). The driver itself must be really good. I wish they'd sell just the driver because I would try to find someone to build a speaker around it.

I've complained only because I have never seen $12,000 speakers that need so much work to sound good. They ask a lot of money from something that's basically a science project. I am really surprised Tone imports them because I find it hard to believe that his stock ones would sound any better than mine did.

I think people here do not realize a few things about LM. These are two separate companies, owned by two brothers. LM Zhuhai, and LM Foshan. Zhuhai makes tube amps with modern designs, whereas Foshan makes the reproduction amps and speakers (mainly Western Electric). In fact, Foshan mainly supplies raw drivers, that was how they started. They only started building whole systems later and they still sell their raw drivers. The quality of their drivers is high, but I don't think cabinetry is their forte. All their drivers have the exact dimensions and TS parameters as the original WEs, and can therefore be used with any horns and cabinets designed for WE drivers. https://www.lm-audio.com/cn/product-p-1.html

 

[ihmeyers]

I think people here do not realize a few things about LM. These are two separate companies, owned by two brothers. LM Zhuhai, and LM Foshan. Zhuhai makes tube amps with modern designs, whereas Foshan makes the reproduction amps and speakers (mainly Western Electric). In fact, Foshan mainly supplies raw drivers, that was how they started. They only started building whole systems later and they still sell their raw drivers. The quality of their drivers is high, but I don't think cabinetry is their forte. All their drivers have the exact dimensions and TS parameters as the original WEs, and can therefore be used with any horns and cabinets designed for WE drivers. https://www.lm-audio.com/cn/product-p-1.html

The drivers are really good. Their construction standards are "sub-par" to be kind. I've worked on one cabinet so far. The driver was affixed by a combination of hex bolts, wood screws and sheet metal screws in no particular pattern. A couple of the screws were so short they barely went into the baffle. The cabinet itself is actually pretty good and decently finished. It's only 1/2" plywood which is thinner than I would like. To the best of my knowledge they don't sell the LM-222 driver alone. I wanted to buy a pair and have someone in the states make me the cabinets. In fact, I don't know where they sell any stand alone drivers. Grant Fidelity couldn't get me any.

The preamp is an Analogue Sound (WE copy) as well. It's an AS-133 and it sounds good. I think ultimately the speakers will turn out OK as well but I can't believe a company like Tone would import them. There's no way they sound like a $12,000 speaker without modification, no matter how good the driver is.

[Analog Sound™] by Line Magnetic AS-133 Direct Heated Triode 2A3 Tube Pre-amplifier – Grant Fidelity

grantfidelity.com

 

[adrianywu]

The drivers are really good. Their construction standards are "sub-par" to be kind. I've worked on one cabinet so far. The driver was affixed by a combination of hex bolts, wood screws and sheet metal screws in no particular pattern. A couple of the screws were so short they barely went into the baffle. The cabinet itself is actually pretty good and decently finished. It's only 1/2" plywood which is thinner than I would like. To the best of my knowledge they don't sell the LM-222 driver alone. I wanted to buy a pair and have someone in the states make me the cabinets. In fact, I don't know where they sell any stand alone drivers. Grant Fidelity couldn't get me any.

The preamp is an Analogue Sound (WE copy) as well. It's an AS-133 and it sounds good. I think ultimately the speakers will turn out OK as well but I can't believe a company like Tone would import them. There's no way they sound like a $12,000 speaker without modification, no matter how good the driver is.

[Analog Sound™] by Line Magnetic AS-133 Direct Heated Triode 2A3 Tube Pre-amplifier – Grant Fidelity

grantfidelity.com

The local list price (China) for the AS-133 is US$3025 at today's exchange rate. The elevated cost of shipping as well as Trump tariffs add a lot more to the price in the US. The addition cost is every more for a heavy item such as speakers. I suspect the speakers probably lists for around $8000 in China. On the other hand, US made equipment is quite a lot more expensive in China than in the US as well. Relative value is difficult to compare.

 

[christoph]

I thought about lodging a PayPal complaint but have not. I don't want to send it back because I don't have boxes and shipping will likely be $250 each way. Plus, there is no real way for them to fix it without pretty much rebuilding it. I shouldn't be so sanguine about it, but I will likely just write it off as a bad experience and never deal with them again.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience

 

[facten]

I'm confused by the Grant Fidelity email re: shipping. In one of your earlier posts it seems to indicate that Rachel was ordering directly from the factory so I don't follow why she would have used an estimate from some vendor on Aliexpress to quote you shipping versus having taken the time to get it directly from the factory and freight forwarder before finalizing the order. Yes, I know she said they weren't responsible for shipping, however in my mind that doesn't preclude ensuring that customers are provided with complete information for the transaction before finalization.