Ya know what abeidrov, I think I will try the Belden just for fun. Others have also spoken highly of Belden as interconnects, especially in combination with Duelund. I bought the Duelund tinned copper speaker cable just for fun and like it. The Duelund 12g experiment will also be interesting. Parts Connection is preparing them now.
Long Run Speaker Recommendation Appreciated
- Thread starter Labpro
- Start date
I suggest you contact Bob Grost of Cerious Technologies. As a former professor of physics he’s stumbled upon some profound uet understandable concepts that have led to the creation of his Lumniscate series. I started out with his XLR interconnects and yesterday just installed his speaker cables- each of which is a different length. He’s able to build out in a way that just works and if anyone understands how to master capacitance, inductance and resistance the professor knows. The results are nothing short of game changing. They should be within budget and yet many who’ve had Odin2 will tell you that his cables sound better at 1/5th the cost. Beautiful too.
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Good luck to you. I don’t think you’ll find a more genuine, knowledgeable fellow than Robert Grost. Both his interconnects and speaker cables have “made a difference.” Significant.
In my experience Transparent’s higher level products are especially good for long runs. They tune their network boxes to give the same sound over a wide range of cable lengths.
I’m sure they’re doing a good job and honestly have no first hand experience. I am guessing though the price point is likely double that of Cerious. I can only speak from my personal experience. There is this post from another member for anyone curious. I can confirm all of the positives.
www.whatsbestforum.com
Cerious Technologies Graphene Lumniscate Cable
I have been listening to my system through Bob Grost’s Cerious Technologies Matrix cables for the past 5 years and have been very happy, happy enough to have completely stopped shopping for cables, and I had been cable swapping for a number of years. I had tried silver cables in the past, and...
www.whatsbestforum.com
One of the very nice things about Transparent is that the incremental cost to go from a short cable at a certain level to a longer cable at the same level is usually small compared to many other manufacturers, like AudioQuest for example.I’m sure they’re doing a good job and honestly have no first hand experience. I am guessing though the price point is likely double that of Cerious. I can only speak from my personal experience. There is this post from another member for anyone curious. I can confirm all of the positives.
Cerious Technologies Graphene Lumniscate Cable
I have been listening to my system through Bob Grost’s Cerious Technologies Matrix cables for the past 5 years and have been very happy, happy enough to have completely stopped shopping for cables, and I had been cable swapping for a number of years. I had tried silver cables in the past, and...
I agree; that is a good thing. Same with Cerious as you can see by attachedscreenshots of interconnects and speaker cable
Attachments
Hello Labpro,
How are the Belden speaker cables working out for you? If you're open to upgrading them, the relatively-unknown audiophile cable brand which takes the Belden pedigree of excellence and elevates them to the uppermost limits of what's possible in the realm of physics and science are also very reasonably priced.
I'm a huge fan of Iconoclast cables - design, built, terminated, delivered and serviced by the best team in the industry, full of brains, heart and soul. Here are some links to get you started on your journey to finding your optimal long-run speaker cables (and more)!
The price for a 16-foot pair of Iconoclast Series 1 speaker cables in TPC (tough-pitch copper): US$2,020.
The same pair with OFC (oxygen-free electrolytic copper): US$2,694.
And finally, with silver-plated TPC: US$3,422.
All are within your budget of US$4k.
Iconoclast's homepage:
8+ years and ~4,800 postings, on the PS Audio Forum:
forum.psaudio.com
Iconoclast thread on WBF:
www.whatsbestforum.com
How are the Belden speaker cables working out for you? If you're open to upgrading them, the relatively-unknown audiophile cable brand which takes the Belden pedigree of excellence and elevates them to the uppermost limits of what's possible in the realm of physics and science are also very reasonably priced.
I'm a huge fan of Iconoclast cables - design, built, terminated, delivered and serviced by the best team in the industry, full of brains, heart and soul. Here are some links to get you started on your journey to finding your optimal long-run speaker cables (and more)!
The price for a 16-foot pair of Iconoclast Series 1 speaker cables in TPC (tough-pitch copper): US$2,020.
The same pair with OFC (oxygen-free electrolytic copper): US$2,694.
And finally, with silver-plated TPC: US$3,422.
All are within your budget of US$4k.
Iconoclast's homepage:
8+ years and ~4,800 postings, on the PS Audio Forum:
Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling
Actually, thank you for your input. The site is just getting started up, and customers have a responsibility to get grouchy, so to speak, when information isn’t there to make a good initial decision. As good a value as I try to design in, these are expensive cables so we are trying to be...
forum.psaudio.com
Iconoclast thread on WBF:
Belden Iconoclast cables
I've been very surprised that the only place one can find reviews or even a thread about these newish high-end IC and speaker cables is on the PS Audio forum. They have gained a very good reputation there, and are being favorably compared to the high-end Nordost offerings. Granted that the...
www.whatsbestforum.com
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Thank you for your message and information on Iconoclast. I will research the info you provided above.
I also read some info from Robyatt Audio and need to try the DNM cables.
Belden is still on the list to try.
Since everyone on this forum is very experienced, you know that completely moving your speakers to another side of the room, creates a new list of acoustical challenges. Lets just say I've become a big Acoustical Sciences (ASC) and Vicoustic fan.
Here is a quick update on my "long run" (5 meter) speaker cable journey.
My colleague and long-time audiophile, has been experimenting with DIY Duelund 12g and 16g along with me.
We are experimenting with single and double runs of 12g and 16g per connection.
Chris (Parts Connexion) just sent us more cable today. So far we have only used bare wire, but for this latest iteration we bought some Neotech Banana connectors.
I have been using duel 12g per connection for about 100 hours and its sound very good.
Prior to this, we tried a single run of 16g and really liked the detail, air, top end sparkle and sound stage.....but not enough "meat on the bones" in the mid-bass and lower mid-range.
So we believe a double 12g + single 16g (for EACH connection - 8 total) could be the final solution.....whatever that means?
I also read some info from Robyatt Audio and need to try the DNM cables.
Belden is still on the list to try.
Since everyone on this forum is very experienced, you know that completely moving your speakers to another side of the room, creates a new list of acoustical challenges. Lets just say I've become a big Acoustical Sciences (ASC) and Vicoustic fan.
Here is a quick update on my "long run" (5 meter) speaker cable journey.
My colleague and long-time audiophile, has been experimenting with DIY Duelund 12g and 16g along with me.
We are experimenting with single and double runs of 12g and 16g per connection.
Chris (Parts Connexion) just sent us more cable today. So far we have only used bare wire, but for this latest iteration we bought some Neotech Banana connectors.
I have been using duel 12g per connection for about 100 hours and its sound very good.
Prior to this, we tried a single run of 16g and really liked the detail, air, top end sparkle and sound stage.....but not enough "meat on the bones" in the mid-bass and lower mid-range.
So we believe a double 12g + single 16g (for EACH connection - 8 total) could be the final solution.....whatever that means?
Hi Labpro,
I made similar experiences reg. speaker cables. Maybe you will like my small report.
But first, please forgive me some spelling and grammar mistakes as English is not my native language.
As you can see on the photo, my equipment has been placed at the long side of my listening room, therefore I need long speaker cables with a minimum of 8m length.
Short system overview:
Dynamikks Model12 speaker, 93dB @1W/1m into 10 ohms
McIntosh MC275CE / 6550 tubes
McIntosh C22CE
Turntable Lenco L75/PTP6 / GrooveMaster III / SPU Wood A, Meister Silver A, Ae
After listening on YouTube to the "snake oil audio" podcast, showing how to make thin, selfmade speaker cables, I decided to make my own.
At this podcast, it was mentioned, that with high efficiency, high impedance speakers in connection with tube amplifiers, thin loudspeaker cables could be a solution for better sound.
I like vintage hifi very much, therefore I decided to buy textile covered, twisted, multicore copper litz wire with 3x0,75mm² diameter, normally used to restore vintage lamps. The cable total diameter of 2,25mm² should be enough to get some music out of my speakers, so I ordered 4 x 10m in different colors. Core material is industrial OFC copper.
Together with some 2,5mm² conducter sleeves frm the local DIY market plus 8 x Dynavox banana barrel connectors frm a local hifi dealers webshop I was ready to make my own cables.
How to make them.
To secure the twisted, braided cable against feazing, I fixed it approx. 5cm from the end with some insulating tape.
Then I secured every litz wire of the textile cable again with insulating tape and removed 3cm of the texture, followed from removing 1cm of the PVC isolation of each wire, twisting and crimping them together with a 2,5mm² conductor sleeve and inserting them into the banana barrel connectors, secured by two screws.
Finally I imposed a 5cm heat shrink tube over the cables, heated them up and had my DIY loudspeaker cables ready.
How is the sound?
First: It works, no short circuit.
Sound: Good. Very good indeed. More slim as the cables I used before but nothing is missing. This textile covered cables have a very good resolution. So good, listening to some music it propelled my nearly out of my armchair. And this at my age.
At the beginning I missed the sonorious deep bass of its predecessor. These showed at very low frequencies some disturbing room excitation frequencies. But now, nothing like this shows up anymore. Gone!
Do I like the way it sounds? Yes I like it very much. Sound is more accurate, precise and very well balanced. And it delivers a good, precise bass, enough bass. Believe me! Do I miss something? No, I do not miss anything.
How much I paid for?
Total material costs all together are approx. €120,00 instead of €1.200 minimum for ready made loudspeaker cables from a shop. Maybe to cheap for some users but the result is excellent. Try it.
Best regards
Volker
I made similar experiences reg. speaker cables. Maybe you will like my small report.
But first, please forgive me some spelling and grammar mistakes as English is not my native language.
As you can see on the photo, my equipment has been placed at the long side of my listening room, therefore I need long speaker cables with a minimum of 8m length.
Short system overview:
Dynamikks Model12 speaker, 93dB @1W/1m into 10 ohms
McIntosh MC275CE / 6550 tubes
McIntosh C22CE
Turntable Lenco L75/PTP6 / GrooveMaster III / SPU Wood A, Meister Silver A, Ae
After listening on YouTube to the "snake oil audio" podcast, showing how to make thin, selfmade speaker cables, I decided to make my own.
At this podcast, it was mentioned, that with high efficiency, high impedance speakers in connection with tube amplifiers, thin loudspeaker cables could be a solution for better sound.
I like vintage hifi very much, therefore I decided to buy textile covered, twisted, multicore copper litz wire with 3x0,75mm² diameter, normally used to restore vintage lamps. The cable total diameter of 2,25mm² should be enough to get some music out of my speakers, so I ordered 4 x 10m in different colors. Core material is industrial OFC copper.
Together with some 2,5mm² conducter sleeves frm the local DIY market plus 8 x Dynavox banana barrel connectors frm a local hifi dealers webshop I was ready to make my own cables.
How to make them.
To secure the twisted, braided cable against feazing, I fixed it approx. 5cm from the end with some insulating tape.
Then I secured every litz wire of the textile cable again with insulating tape and removed 3cm of the texture, followed from removing 1cm of the PVC isolation of each wire, twisting and crimping them together with a 2,5mm² conductor sleeve and inserting them into the banana barrel connectors, secured by two screws.
Finally I imposed a 5cm heat shrink tube over the cables, heated them up and had my DIY loudspeaker cables ready.
How is the sound?
First: It works, no short circuit.
Sound: Good. Very good indeed. More slim as the cables I used before but nothing is missing. This textile covered cables have a very good resolution. So good, listening to some music it propelled my nearly out of my armchair. And this at my age.
At the beginning I missed the sonorious deep bass of its predecessor. These showed at very low frequencies some disturbing room excitation frequencies. But now, nothing like this shows up anymore. Gone!
Do I like the way it sounds? Yes I like it very much. Sound is more accurate, precise and very well balanced. And it delivers a good, precise bass, enough bass. Believe me! Do I miss something? No, I do not miss anything.
How much I paid for?
Total material costs all together are approx. €120,00 instead of €1.200 minimum for ready made loudspeaker cables from a shop. Maybe to cheap for some users but the result is excellent. Try it.
Best regards
Volker
McDee275, thank you for this great information. You have an amazing system!!
I’m glad you are happy with the end result.
I ended up doing something similar.
My speakers are a nominal 6ohm even though they are rated at 97db, so in order to achieve the necessary bass response, I had to use a combination of “dual” 12g + 16g Duelund (cotton and oil) cable on “each” of the 8 connections.
The effective gauge is 8awg.
I would have preferred to use bare wire as Jeff Day and others recommended, but I added Neotech bananas (Rhodium plated copper).
They are currently going through a 150 hour break in, so I’m hoping the “tone” from the Duelund tinned copper wire shines through the rhodium connectors…….time will tell.
I’m glad you are happy with the end result.
I ended up doing something similar.
My speakers are a nominal 6ohm even though they are rated at 97db, so in order to achieve the necessary bass response, I had to use a combination of “dual” 12g + 16g Duelund (cotton and oil) cable on “each” of the 8 connections.
The effective gauge is 8awg.
I would have preferred to use bare wire as Jeff Day and others recommended, but I added Neotech bananas (Rhodium plated copper).
They are currently going through a 150 hour break in, so I’m hoping the “tone” from the Duelund tinned copper wire shines through the rhodium connectors…….time will tell.
Not sure what Clarus Crimson cables cost in your neck of the woods ( I’m in Canada) but I have 26’ lengths of them for my rig and they are standouts in all quantifiable ways over the Nordost Purple Flare and Red Dawn as well as Analysis Plus Big Silver Ovals…..
Could just be system Synergy but they do absolutely everything better than the aforementioned cables.
I have always had long cables on my rig but really don’t know why some preform better than others , but the bc Crimson cables are a game changer over here
@Labpro , something you might consider is moving your amps by the speakers and having very short speaker cables. This will help increase intelligibility of vocals and improve bass impact.
The trick though is long interconnects. Since you don't want to move away from your Shindo 1 meter cables, how about have the cables drive a Jensen Transformers ISOMAX box that converts from single-ended to balanced, then run 5 meters worth of Mogami Neglex balanced cables (which are good quality but also inexpensive) and then convert back to single ended at the other end using another set of Jensen ISOMAX transformers?
I've done exactly this in some difficult installations. One was a record store where the owner wanted the turntable and preamp near him so he could spin LPs, but the speakers has to be at the rear of the store. For that the interconnect was about 60 feet long. Being any audiophile, he didn't want to sacrifice sound quality; he had tried really long speaker cables but the result was dreadful.
When I was doing a live recording many years ago at an auditorium, we had to use the speakers mounted in the space as part of a PA for the solo vocalists. At first I tried running really long cables and it worked. The speaker cables were nearly 150 feet! But since I had several days to set this up, I tried moving the amps to the speaker location and running the same speaker cable, only 6 feet instead of 150 feet; I also ran a balanced line using the setup I described above. Instantly it was so much easier to discern the words the vocalists were actually singing! In fact so much so that a good number of people commented to me on this. The speakers involved were nothing special but were higher efficiency and intended for PA. I used cheap amps for this too. So I know this technique works and works well.
The approach I'm suggesting here isn't expensive. But it could offer you a rather impressive increase in resolution.
The trick though is long interconnects. Since you don't want to move away from your Shindo 1 meter cables, how about have the cables drive a Jensen Transformers ISOMAX box that converts from single-ended to balanced, then run 5 meters worth of Mogami Neglex balanced cables (which are good quality but also inexpensive) and then convert back to single ended at the other end using another set of Jensen ISOMAX transformers?
I've done exactly this in some difficult installations. One was a record store where the owner wanted the turntable and preamp near him so he could spin LPs, but the speakers has to be at the rear of the store. For that the interconnect was about 60 feet long. Being any audiophile, he didn't want to sacrifice sound quality; he had tried really long speaker cables but the result was dreadful.
When I was doing a live recording many years ago at an auditorium, we had to use the speakers mounted in the space as part of a PA for the solo vocalists. At first I tried running really long cables and it worked. The speaker cables were nearly 150 feet! But since I had several days to set this up, I tried moving the amps to the speaker location and running the same speaker cable, only 6 feet instead of 150 feet; I also ran a balanced line using the setup I described above. Instantly it was so much easier to discern the words the vocalists were actually singing! In fact so much so that a good number of people commented to me on this. The speakers involved were nothing special but were higher efficiency and intended for PA. I used cheap amps for this too. So I know this technique works and works well.
The approach I'm suggesting here isn't expensive. But it could offer you a rather impressive increase in resolution.
Hello @Atmasphere,
Thank you for the thoughtful recommendation. Your vast experience using this method is intriguing and something I need to learn more about.
I plan on doing some research on this ISOMAX box.
Thank you again!
Thank you for the thoughtful recommendation. Your vast experience using this method is intriguing and something I need to learn more about.
I plan on doing some research on this ISOMAX box.
Thank you again!
The ISOMAX can be ordered several ways. The ones you want go from RCA to XLR male and XLR female to RCA. They also make them in monophonic versions.
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