low watt amplifiers in either stereo or mono - recommendations?

[DEV]

I must have missed that one DEV. I'd gladly respond to a PM from Ian.

Anybody hear Lampi's GM70?

Hi Jack - I actually pm you asking if you could reach out to him because my knowing of your firsthand experience with Jimmy's set-up - he is on the fence right now because he's looking for reviews so if you would be so kind to reach out to him by sending him a pm would be most appreciated. I think my Vac's would be a very nice match with his M project speakers.

 

[DEV]

Dev,

Are you looking for commercially available products or custom builds? Also how low are you willing to go? I run my Tannoy Glenairs with either 2.5 or 4 watts in a large room.

Besides one's already mentioned I'd look at these. I've heard or have examples from all of these recently;

Emia
OMA
AprilSound
Tron
Thoress
Wavelength Audio
Miyajima (an OTL)

Now others that I haven't heard lately;

Triode Audio
Shindo
Leben
AudioNote UK
Kondo
Fi
Nagra
Line Magnetic

Non tube options that I have heard and like;

Acoustic Plan
DNM

I really need to hear for myself to decide as I have with other speakers I have owned - I would be okay with a custom build but would want to hear the proto type prior and be enamored because resale value would just not be there.

How low of wattage - this is where I do not have listening experience - this is a whole new territory for me coming from inefficient speakers but what I heard at the RMAF Show was very low wattage, 1.8 or something like that. Jeff has recommended TW 8 watt mono blocks

If it works I'm open minded - which Tannoy's - 10 or 15's and what's their efficiency and ohm?

I just had a Kondo Ongaku integrate - found there were a few things I did not like and at this type of money my expectations are very high - was recommended I add A M77 pre - more cha ching cha ching - did not have one handy so I wasn't able to compare.

Thanks for the added list of possibilities.

I was already to book a flight and head over to Jeff C's and do some comparison of the Tron and TW but unfortunately he is ampless currently - sold everything off and awaiting for new arrivals.

 

[DEV]

I know allot of you guys have either looked at pics of these Horning speakers and seeing only two drivers but there's allot more going on - these are horn loaded and have 8 woofer drivers in each speaker - very underrated - under the radar speaker design.

When I originally entered Jeff C's room at a show last year I said to my self "oh some more thin sounding speakers w/limited dynamics etc." I can say my first initial impressions was far from that; "where are the subs - sounds so natural and musically engaging" I had to sit and listen - 1 hour later and it only felt like I had been in there listening for 15 minutes - very impressive indeed. I'm use to MBL's which are very fast etc - these speakers really have peaked my interest and allow me to use low power - this will most defiantly be different and looking forward to the journey.

Picture of speaker up front has the Brand New drivers, you can see the speaker in the back with the older ones.

 

[asiufy]

Hi Dev,

Sorry to be tooting my own horn (amps actually), but I just thought I'd mention Audiopax amps as a possible choice.

They use regular KT88s, but through a special circuit topology (called IDS - Ideal Device Simulator), they sound like 300B SETs!

http://www.audiopax.com/e/technology.php?t=3

The line starts with the Model 88 (that has been on the cover of Stereophile mag, a couple of years ago). Review here:

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/843/

That's just 30W, and the new version (mk. V) is considerably better than the one Robert tested, since it incorporates advances from the latest 2 models (the 50W and 100W monoblocs).

We actually showed them at Newport last month (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-show-newport/), and Audiopax also did fairly well in Munich this year (http://www.audiostream.com/content/lampizator-hq-player-audiopax-avante-garde-digital-done-right).

In both rooms, we had people saying they never heard Avantgarde speakers sound that good, and some of them actually LIKED the Avantgardes!

Let me know if you want to give them a try...

cheers,
alex

 

[Steve williams]

Thx, not too sure because of the real estate space needed

Steve what type of heat do these throw off

very little as there aren't that many tubes. I remain steadfast that the amp to have price no object for you David is the ML3 Signature.

 

[jazdoc]

Care to elaborate a little more - yes Thomas Mayer's amps appear to have allot of positive happy owners and chatting with a few have conveyed they really don't throw off any noticable heat

I am lucky to own an Experience Music two box phono stage using 56 triodes and 7788 (E810F) tubes in the signal box with 394a mercury rectifiers in the power supply box. Jeffrey and Dave Slagle built mine to spec with dedicated mono phono and stereo inputs and two line level inputs. Likewise, I use a bespoke two box line stage with 71A triodes in the signal box and 394a mercury rectifiers in the power supply box. Fit and finish are extraordinary. The sound is sublime; open and holographic with great bandwidth and speed. A misconception of tubed gear is that it is slow and syrupy; my preamps are FAST but preserve plenty of tone color and a density of information I've only been able to hear with tubes. As I've upgraded the components around them, I've come to appreciate my pre-amplification even more and regard it as a true end of life product.

One advantage of using tubes is the ability to tailor the sound to your particular sonic palate by rolling tubes. Jeffrey typically uses tubes that are plentiful, long lasting and reasonably priced, although he does have the option of using Western Electric globes if you wish. The boxes get warm but do not noticeably heat up my small listening room. One note: my preamps are HEAVY, each box weighs between 70-90 lbs! They have a demo unit that you can listen to in your system but be aware, it is not built to the same spec as a final unit. You will however, get a good insight into what the preamp can do. Alternatively, perhaps we can arrange a trip to the Pacific NW for a demo. PM me if interested.

I've heard the OMA at their Manhattan store; in the context of that system it was wonderful. I also really liked the Thoress and Tron amps when I've heard them. I find Shindo gear interesting. I like the aesthetics and if you listen mainly to jazz and chamber music they could be your ticket. There is definitely a "Shindo sound". My impression is that if you go the Shindo route, you are committing yourself to an all Shindo system to really maximize things. I've heard the Wavelength gear at RMAF and I'm can't comment because I wasn't a fan of the speakers he paired with but Gordon Rankin has a good reputation in SET circles. Unfortunately, I have not heard the Line Magnetic gear but it does look intriguing.

Good luck

 

[KeithR]

how big is your room, Dev?

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I would get several examples, some parallel, some pure SET.

Short list
Absolare (sounded stunning in Munich)
Border Patrol (sounded stunning in Axpona)
Audio Note GakuOn (in my system now)

It's been a while since I had the Lamms.

 

[DEV]

I am lucky to own an Experience Music two box phono stage using 56 triodes and 7788 (E810F) tubes in the signal box with 394a mercury rectifiers in the power supply box. Jeffrey and Dave Slagle built mine to spec with dedicated mono phono and stereo inputs and two line level inputs. Likewise, I use a bespoke two box line stage with 71A triodes in the signal box and 394a mercury rectifiers in the power supply box. Fit and finish are extraordinary. The sound is sublime; open and holographic with great bandwidth and speed. A misconception of tubed gear is that it is slow and syrupy; my preamps are FAST but preserve plenty of tone color and a density of information I've only been able to hear with tubes. As I've upgraded the components around them, I've come to appreciate my pre-amplification even more and regard it as a true end of life product.

One advantage of using tubes is the ability to tailor the sound to your particular sonic palate by rolling tubes. Jeffrey typically uses tubes that are plentiful, long lasting and reasonably priced, although he does have the option of using Western Electric globes if you wish. The boxes get warm but do not noticeably heat up my small listening room. One note: my preamps are HEAVY, each box weighs between 70-90 lbs! They have a demo unit that you can listen to in your system but be aware, it is not built to the same spec as a final unit. You will however, get a good insight into what the preamp can do. Alternatively, perhaps we can arrange a trip to the Pacific NW for a demo. PM me if interested.


I've heard the OMA at their Manhattan store; in the context of that system it was wonderful. I also really liked the Thoress and Tron amps when I've heard them. I find Shindo gear interesting. I like the aesthetics and if you listen mainly to jazz and chamber music they could be your ticket. There is definitely a "Shindo sound". My impression is that if you go the Shindo route, you are committing yourself to an all Shindo system to really maximize things. I've heard the Wavelength gear at RMAF and I'm can't comment because I wasn't a fan of the speakers he paired with but Gordon Rankin has a good reputation in SET circles. Unfortunately, I have not heard the Line Magnetic gear but it does look intriguing.

Good luck

Yes I'm familiar with those, was checking them out a few years ago but never did end up listening to them. Thank you for the other info and invite.

 

[garylkoh]

Having just spent a few days at the Newport show with the Viva Audio amps and headphone amps, they are something you might want to consider. Viva Audio declares their amplifiers to "have no sonic signature — nothing is added or taken away from the natural sound but delivered to the listener exactly as it was recorded". This is something I strive for and I can attest to this. Clean, but not clinical.

 

[DEV]

how big is your room, Dev?

It's a living room space and varies - be a while but I believe the speakers sit in a approx 15ft wide area but too the right of the right speaker opens up to another area which is approx. 18ft wide but there is a wall and post that protrudes which assist to balance the foundation of that right speaker - length is approx. 35ft. Ceiling varies - where the speakers are positioned 9ft - then goes 18ft and 22ft so lots of cubic ft too fill. The space is very natural, no slap echo - just a pretty decent room for what it is.

Here's a older pic with my MBL's but gives you an idea, for more serious listening and removing the room I place the chair that's off too the left in front of the table but 80 % of the time sit far away listening.

 

[DEV]

very little as there aren't that many tubes. I remain steadfast that the amp to have price no object for you David is the ML3 Signature.

thx Steve

 

[rockitman]

Dev,

What was your motivation to leave big power big speakers ? I imagine you still have the AF1 ? The AF0 is not gonna happen from my insider info.

 

[DEV]

Dev,

What was your motivation to leave big power big speakers ? I imagine you still have the AF1 ? The AF0 is not gonna happen from my insider info.

Hi Christian,

just that "big power speakers" I have never owned a high efficient speaker nor heard one that is 98 db that plays 20 to 20 with no crossover on 7 of the octaves have you? If so what?

It just happened, every efficient speaker I have heard to date I found myself not liking for some reason or another - typical horn sound - huge - looks - etc. but these just do it for me so we will see.





Yes still loven my AF1 - thank goodness I didn't sell it - yes same inside info.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Dev,

I would assume the Hornings came through High Water Sound.

I would very much trust in Jeff's ears and try several amps he recommends.

Also, it's official. My MBLs are being replaced. I signed the deal on the Perfect8 Cubes, and they love 45 watts per channel SETs.

 

[ashandger]

The fit and finish on these is top notch - I think they may offer just too much power because my speakers would only use the first few watts. Do these throw off much heat?

HiFi Critic rated their power closer to 50 watts. Not sure about heat about. Their owner Rumen Artarski is very straight and helpful (just exchanged some emails with him yesterday about these amps) so perhaps best to contact him about heat output. I think you may be able to find the HiFi Critic review online and that will give you lots to think about...all positive!!

 

[arthurs]

Once I heard what the custom 2A3 by Scott Shaeffer at Found Music did on my Westminster GR's, I had to have it, but still love my higher powered Line Magnetic SET and Shindo P/P...

 

[DEV]

Dev,

I would assume the Hornings came through High Water Sound.

I would very much trust in Jeff's ears and try several amps he recommends.

Also, it's official. My MBLs are being replaced. I signed the deal on the Perfect8 Cubes, and they love 45 watts per channel SETs.

Yes Jeff seems to be able to always put together very nice sounding set-ups at any show he attends and that alone says allot.

Right now it's only the Tron Telstar and TW 300B 8 watt mono blocks being recommended - the only issue I see is he has not heard most if any of the ones listed through out this thread so at end of the day I trust my own ears so I will need to hear and decide just like I did when I went through numerous amps with my MBL's and ended with the Vac 450's as in my signature - really too bad you were never able to get a pair to hear in your own set-up.

 

[DEV]

HiFi Critic rated their power closer to 50 watts. Not sure about heat about. Their owner Rumen Artarski is very straight and helpful (just exchanged some emails with him yesterday about these amps) so perhaps best to contact him about heat output. I think you may be able to find the HiFi Critic review online and that will give you lots to think about...all positive!!

I'm don't put too much weight on reviews - I use them at most to just gain some basic back ground info about the product and that's it - everyone has "mine is different & BEST story" I want to hear it in my own system with my own speakers and let me be the judge of that - way too many pces that I have gotten in the past with glowing reports left me scratching my head in amazement - not agreeing!

What speakers do you have and what type of questions were you asking - may assist me - let me know - thx F.Y.I. Where are you located country - state - city wise

I just read a few areas that basically make me not interested - one being;

These amplifiers do get quite hot, consuming (and therefore radiating) about 400W each. Local cooling is down to a commendably quiet fan, and while such heat might be fine in winter, it can be a little too much for comfort on a warm summer day.

 

[DEV]

Having just spent a few days at the Newport show with the Viva Audio amps and headphone amps, they are something you might want to consider. Viva Audio declares their amplifiers to "have no sonic signature — nothing is added or taken away from the natural sound but delivered to the listener exactly as it was recorded". This is something I strive for and I can attest to this. Clean, but not clinical.

Hi Gary - thx, how's it going? - I will do a bit of research