low watt amplifiers in either stereo or mono - recommendations?

[KeithR]

You have a nice, large room Dev and I heard the Hornings most recently at Newport (Jeff let me throw on a fun record on Sunday . I think the transition from MBLs to the Hornings will be fruitful.

Similarly, I have 101db Zu Definition IVs that are multi-driver, x-overless as well with impedance dropping to only 5.5 minimum, 8ohm nominal. I've always found 15+ watts better on my speakers (15 amps and counting...) but clearly they aren't the same. Hopefully Jeff will send you a pair to demo in your room.

 

[rockitman]

Hi Christian,

just that "big power speakers" I have never owned a high efficient speaker nor heard one that is 98 db that plays 20 to 20 with no crossover on 7 of the octaves have you? If so what?

It just happened, every efficient speaker I have heard to date I found myself not liking for some reason or another - typical horn sound - huge - looks - etc. but these just do it for me so we will see.





Yes still loven my AF1 - thank goodness I didn't sell it - yes same inside info.

But do you get the sound pressure of a live performance...I'm not talking quartet chamber music...?

 

[garylkoh]

Hi Gary - thx, how's it going? - I will do a bit of research

Hey David - I've been busy! The Viva aren't known in the US, but they are highly respected in Europe and Asia where I have some customers using it..... this is the first time I've spent so much concentrated time with some of them, and I have to say that I am impressed. Never expected to say that about an 845 DHT, but there you go.

 

[DEV]

But do you get the sound pressure of a live performance...I'm not talking quartet chamber music...?

you could always start a new thread to discuss - this is more about low watt amplifiers . Horning does have a flagship model called Agalme - have you ever heard a pair?

 

[beaur]

Dev,

My Tannoys are the 15s and they are rated at 95db and 8 ohms. If your eventual trip to Jeff's isn't just an in and out give me a ring. I am in Brooklyn and could provide a good meal and hopefully some entertainment if our schedules match.

BTW if you like what he's selling (and I do) it's hard to go wrong with Jeff's recommendations, and for his musical discoveries also.

I see I missed Viva. Have heard them sound great also but they do throw off some heat, at least the big ones.

To me there's nothing like the visceral impact of a large horn speaker. I understand why some don't like them but any negatives are outweighed by their visceral impact if done correctly.

 

[DEV]

You have a nice, large room Dev and I heard the Hornings most recently at Newport (Jeff let me throw on a fun record on Sunday . I think the transition from MBLs to the Hornings will be fruitful.

Similarly, I have 101db Zu Definition IVs that are multi-driver, x-overless as well with impedance dropping to only 5.5 minimum, 8ohm nominal. I've always found 15+ watts better on my speakers (15 amps and counting...) but clearly they aren't the same. Hopefully Jeff will send you a pair to demo in your room.

What amplification did he have paired up with them? Those were a brand new pair he just received prior to the show, if it was with TW 300B's those were too. I wonder if he ever gets to hear anything actually broken-in.

 

[DEV]

Dev,

My Tannoys are the 15s and they are rated at 95db and 8 ohms. If your eventual trip to Jeff's isn't just an in and out give me a ring. I am in Brooklyn and could provide a good meal and hopefully some entertainment if our schedules match.

BTW if you like what he's selling (and I do) it's hard to go wrong with Jeff's recommendations, and for his musical discoveries also.

I see I missed Viva. Have heard them sound great also but they do throw off some heat, at least the big ones.

To me there's nothing like the visceral impact of a large horn speaker. I understand why some don't like them but any negatives are outweighed by their visceral impact if done correctly.

Thanks - will do - always enjoy meeting others in the same hobby - my preference would be to hear in my system so we will see.

 

[rockitman]

you could always start a new thread to discuss - this is more about low watt amplifiers . Horning does have a flagship model called Agalme - have you ever heard a pair?

View attachment 21078

No, but visually I'm not impressed. I guess I need to get out more.

 

[DEV]

No, but visually I'm not impressed. I guess I need to get out more.

Ya for sure those are over powering and why I choice the model below - I actually like the look of mine and fit well within the space.

Here's a pic of them just initially put in place

 

[JackD201]

Hi David,

I don't know what exactly to tell Ian. I'm on the record that the 450 is my favorite tube amp north of 250wpc and one of my favorites period . A caveat is that I've also only heard them with VR-9s and VR-11s. I'm sure they can drive the MPro with headroom to spare but have no idea how they'll sound together. I've not seen an MPro in the flesh much less heard one. Personally I think it's a safe bet but I'm not keyed in on Ian's hot sonic hot buttons. I'm wary of making recommendations under such circumstances.

Looking at your pics got me thinking. You know........with the right racks you CAN stack the ML3 main section over the power section

 

[DEV]

Hi David,

I don't know what exactly to tell Ian. I'm on the record that the 450 is my favorite tube amp north of 250wpc and one of my favorites period . A caveat is that I've also only heard them with VR-9s and VR-11s. I'm sure they can drive the MPro with headroom to spare but have no idea how they'll sound together.

Just that I already referred him to contact Vac directly and also provided him one person who had paired up with his MQ's - and referred him to speak with Scott Walker who sells both Magico & Vac - Ian mentioned Valin was going to pair them up specifically with the M Project but so far no report.

Looking at your pics got me thinking. You know........with the right racks you CAN stack the ML3 main section over the power section

Yes that is a possibility

 

[Fidach Lad]

It is interesting to me that your list contains three 300B amplifiers and one 211 amplifier, as they sound quite different to me. Have you ruled other "classic" DHT tubes out - 45, 2A3, 845, etc.? I am familiar with your speakers and they do well on 2W in a not-gigantic room. My favorite is the Type 45 tube of the DHTs I have heard in SET mode. It is very balanced, crystal clear- life-like - to my ears.

There are not a lot of commercial manufacturers: Fi Audio in the US, Yamamoto in Japan, Audio Note (UK) are the only one's I can think of on short notice and the only commercial versions I have heard. All of these 45 amplifiers are reasonably priced, under about 8000 USD for the most expensive (Audio Note Paladin Silver Signature). They all share in common excellent output transformers.

It's really a pity that there are so few commercial manufacturers, because it is such a lovely sounding tube, but demand is very low in the West for low-watt amplifiers and SET amplifiers do not appear to be that popular in the US, anyway.

 

[CGabriel]

An amplifier line that is not well known nor distributed well in the US is the AYON line. I experienced them many times at shows and in our own rooms. They always sound nothing less than superb in every system that I have heard them in. I also own the AYON Crossfire which is a single-ended 30 watt model. It is not hideously expensive but competes with any of the amplifiers that have been mentioned.

I also have personal experience with the Nelson Pass First Watt SIT mono-block amplifiers and can recommend them if you have a very high efficiency speaker like you mentioned.

The other amplifiers to look at would from Berning. Fabulous amplifiers and very reliable. Not much to look at but world class sound quality.

Good luck with it.

 

[DEV]

It is interesting to me that your list contains three 300B amplifiers and one 211 amplifier, as they sound quite different to me. Have you ruled other "classic" DHT tubes out - 45, 2A3, 845, etc.? I am familiar with your speakers and they do well on 2W in a not-gigantic room. My favorite is the Type 45 tube of the DHTs I have heard in SET mode. It is very balanced, crystal clear- life-like - to my ears.

There are not a lot of commercial manufacturers: Fi Audio in the US, Yamamoto in Japan, Audio Note (UK) are the only one's I can think of on short notice and the only commercial versions I have heard. All of these 45 amplifiers are reasonably priced, under about 8000 USD for the most expensive (Audio Note Paladin Silver Signature). They all share in common excellent output transformers.

It's really a pity that there are so few commercial manufacturers, because it is such a lovely sounding tube, but demand is very low in the West for low-watt amplifiers and SET amplifiers do not appear to be that popular in the US, anyway.

No open minded - thanks for the suggestions and Welcome to WBF - this being your first posting.

 

[DEV]

An amplifier line that is not well known nor distributed well in the US is the AYON line. I experienced them many times at shows and in our own rooms. They always sound nothing less than superb in every system that I have heard them in. I also own the AYON Crossfire which is a single-ended 30 watt model. It is not hideously expensive but competes with any of the amplifiers that have been mentioned.

I also have personal experience with the Nelson Pass First Watt SIT mono-block amplifiers and can recommend them if you have a very high efficiency speaker like you mentioned.

The other amplifiers to look at would from Berning. Fabulous amplifiers and very reliable. Not much to look at but world class sound quality.

Good luck with it.

Hi Caelin, thank you for those suggestions -

Your Crossfire, what do you have paired up with it. What type of heat does it throw off - can you provide some further details in relation to it sonics -

 

[CGabriel]

Hi Caelin, thank you for those suggestions -

Your Crossfire, what do you have paired up with it. What type of heat does it throw off - can you provide some further details in relation to it sonics -

We need several different types of audio systems to test our products with to see how they react to different components. One of the systems we test with a low power amplifier mated with a relatively high efficiency speaker. After talking with many reviewers and colleages in the industry and doing many in-house tests we settled on the SoundKaos Wave40 speaker (thank you Srajan Eben) and the AYON Crossfire. Now I am not saying that either of these are the best products in their category. They are simply the products that we found to our liking.

You can learn more about the Wave40 speakers here if you interested.
http://www.soundkaos.com/

All three of these amplifiers had similar resolution and clarity: First Watt, Berning and the Ayon. I would use any of them without hesitation. The Ayon has a bit more power than the First Watt and the Wave40 speakers are only 91db efficient so that little extra power was appreciated. What the Ayon did that the others did not was in its lower registers. It has a more fully bodied sound quality and a sense of more dynamic power. And I am not talking about the infamous tube "bloom". I am talking about great bass definition and micro to macro dynamic speed and power. This is why I ultimately chose it for our reference system.

I would say the Ayon is typical in its heat output for a single-ended tube amp. Not even close to hot just warm.

 

[Steve williams]

We need several different types of audio systems to test our products with to see how they react to different components. One of the systems we test with a low power amplifier mated with a relatively high efficiency speaker. After talking with many reviewers and colleages in the industry and doing many in-house tests we settled on the SoundKaos Wave40 speaker (thank you Srajan Eben) and the AYON Crossfire. Now I am not saying that either of these are the best products in their category. They are simply the products that we found to our liking.

You can learn more about the Wave40 speakers here if you interested.
http://www.soundkaos.com/

All three of these amplifiers had similar resolution and clarity: First Watt, Berning and the Ayon. I would use any of them without hesitation. The Ayon has a bit more power than the First Watt and the Wave40 speakers are only 91db efficient so that little extra power was appreciated. What the Ayon did that the others did not was in its lower registers. It has a more fully bodied sound quality and a sense of more dynamic power. And I am not talking about the infamous tube "bloom". I am talking about great bass definition and micro to macro dynamic speed and power. This is why I ultimately chose it for our reference system.

I would say the Ayon is typical in its heat output for a single-ended tube amp. Not even close to hot just warm.

View attachment 21266

View attachment 21267

Dev
I've been to Caelins house and heard his system and it has a midrange to die for. Glorious setup

 

[Fidach Lad]

We need several different types of audio systems to test our products with to see how they react to different components. One of the systems we test with a low power amplifier mated with a relatively high efficiency speaker. After talking with many reviewers and colleages in the industry and doing many in-house tests we settled on the SoundKaos Wave40 speaker (thank you Srajan Eben) and the AYON Crossfire. Now I am not saying that either of these are the best products in their category. They are simply the products that we found to our liking.

You can learn more about the Wave40 speakers here if you interested.
http://www.soundkaos.com/

All three of these amplifiers had similar resolution and clarity: First Watt, Berning and the Ayon. I would use any of them without hesitation. The Ayon has a bit more power than the First Watt and the Wave40 speakers are only 91db efficient so that little extra power was appreciated. What the Ayon did that the others did not was in its lower registers. It has a more fully bodied sound quality and a sense of more dynamic power. And I am not talking about the infamous tube "bloom". I am talking about great bass definition and micro to macro dynamic speed and power. This is why I ultimately chose it for our reference system.

I would say the Ayon is typical in its heat output for a single-ended tube amp. Not even close to hot just warm.

From what little experience I have, I am often been more interested in the electrical load curve, than in the sensitivity of, a loudspeaker. This may be because, in spite of their limitations, I prefer the sound of 2-way loudspeakers that come in wooden boxes. I am not alone. I have heard more than one pair of LS3/5As being driven by an 8-9W 300B SET in a small parlour!

I wonder what kind of electrical load the Wave 40 presents in the audible frequency range?

 

[Al M.]

I'm looking to pair up with my Horning 98 db speakers -

Any you would recommend? why? Price doesn't matter - from the lowest to what ever.

My small short list in no order;

BorderPatrol
Tron Telstar GT
TW Acustic 300B mono blocks
M300B Frankenstein MK II

If I had to replace my amps, I would go with BorderPatrol, without audition (I do think they offer return anyway if not pleased). Why trust them without audition? Because of their external power supplies that quite likely beat anything for low watt amps in the market except at the highest price points. These power supplies that come standard with their amps *) have transformed my amps and system:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17334-My-minimonitor-subwoofer-system

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...trol-MB-external-power-supplies-for-tube-amps

_____________

*) they offer even bigger power supplies than I have with their amps if desired

 

[Fidach Lad]

Apparently, I haven't learned how to post on these forums. I thought I had posted earlier this evening on the topic of the SoundKaos Wave40 speaker, as I am devoted to 2-way speakers in wooden boxes.

My comment was something to the effect that I often pay more attention to the electrical load and phase diagrams for a loudspeaker than its sensitivity rating. A 91dB-sensitive loudspeaker that presents a load >= 8 Ohm in the audible range will work very nicely with a single 8-9W 300B tube/channel amplifier. In the UK and Asia, it is not uncommon to see such an amplifier driving an LS3/5A (83dB senitive) in a small room due to their easy electrical load characteristics. By the way, if anyone is in the mood to by the ELROG 300B tube, they do sound lovely and they are reliable, but they are about 40-50% down on output power compared to the WE300B and you need a tube friendly speaker in the 86dB area to compensate for this. My experience was with the new Red100 speaker, made by Russel K, a UK firm.