M1.1 Gain Setting with C1.2

[agencal]

Hi everyone.
I am now a happy C1.2 + X1 + M1.1 user. My speakers are Sonus Faber il Cremonese ex3me and all cabled with Kubala Sosna Eletion. Roon+Qobuz (c1.2 add on card)

The sound is amazing. It is crystal clear and articulate. Sound stage is the deepest i have heard till now and wide. I am more than happy but as most of you advices i will add a L1 and X1 share with C1.2 as soon as my budget allow. Even i really can not believe how the sound will improve from here

My question is: Thay say “c1.2 has a digital/analog volume control and analog comes in in the very late volumes like -15db to 0db. So you sould decrease the gain of your M1.1 at keast to -6db”
Is it true? Anyone experienced this wich can help me?

Best
Ahmed

 

[JackD201]

Hi Ahmed, yes you definitely can. However, in my experience, the gain is better used with the loudspeakers in mind rather than to avoid the digital portion of the volume control. When the time comes to add the L1 you'll be running the C1.2 at unity gain (0dB) anyway.

I highly recommend, if you haven't yet, connecting your CH units to your room's router or get a router connected to your network. This along with an android device and the CH App, will allow you to dial in the gain parameters that sound best to you directly from your listening chair. This makes everything so much easier to try both for your ears but also your eyes and back. The ability to do quick A-B comparisons in for me priceless.

Congratulations on your M1.1 and I can't wait until you get the L1. In the meantime, most important of all, enjoy!

 

[agencal]

Hi Ahmed, yes you definitely can. However, in my experience, the gain is better used with the loudspeakers in mind rather than to avoid the digital portion of the volume control. When the time comes to add the L1 you'll be running the C1.2 at unity gain (0dB) anyway.

I highly recommend, if you haven't yet, connecting your CH units to your room's router or get a router connected to your network. This along with an android device and the CH App, will allow you to dial in the gain parameters that sound best to you directly from your listening chair. This makes everything so much easier to try both for your ears but also your eyes and back. The ability to do quick A-B comparisons in for me priceless.

Congratulations on your M1.1 and I can't wait until you get the L1. In the meantime, most important of all, enjoy!

Thanks Jack for your detailed answer
I defenetly will try the app. Sould i buy a qualitiy switch-router or is it better to buy an audiophile switch to use with C1.2 roon as well?
Bu the way i really wanna have L1 right now after your this words “can't wait until you get the L1”
I hope i will feel that kind of a diffirence. Everyone of you give this vibe

 

[JackD201]

Thanks Jack for your detailed answer
I defenetly will try the app. Sould i buy a qualitiy switch-router or is it better to buy an audiophile switch to use with C1.2 roon as well?
Bu the way i really wanna have L1 right now after your this words “can't wait until you get the L1”
I hope i will feel that kind of a diffirence. Everyone of you give this vibe

You could definitely go with a good switch/router especially if you have a NAS too

 

[Kingrex]

Yea, I'm a dealer. Not the only one and you can shop where you want. I have put Torus Isolation transformers on CH precision. They are far more impactful than a switch or router. A simple rack mount RM20 will support the M1.1 just fine. That is where you will really notice the gain. On the amplifier. It cost less than many power cords.

 

[agencal]

Yea, I'm a dealer. Not the only one and you can shop where you want. I have put Torus Isolation transformers on CH precision. They are far more impactful than a switch or router. A simple rack mount RM20 will support the M1.1 just fine. That is where you will really notice the gain. On the amplifier. It cost less than many power cords.

Thanks but i did not get the idea. I am trying to use my C1.2 at its analog only section and then to understand at which volume level it works analog only. Then try to decrease the gain of M1.1 to use the C1.2 at its best with the volume control. So what will that racks do for this?

 

[Kingrex]

Your using digital as your primary source. Can I ask why your focusing on getting the CH to a analog only section. And can you even do this? I am simply asking. I don't know how its designed. Even at unity gain, are you bypassing all digital processes in the amp and preamp.

I fully understand the desire to tune the amp/preamp to an optimal hand shake with the speaker. I see Jacks comments as ideal. I have sat with CH owners and seen them wade through the options available through their tablets at the listening position. There seem to be a lot of tuning options. You can really dial that gear in.

 

[JackD201]

Hi Kingrex, only the digital volume control. I don't know for sure if CH bit shaves, my assumption is they do. It doesn't really matter since usually the amp gain is best sounding when dropped rather than raised. In the 10 series there is no option to increase, only decrease. Something learned from the 1 series. So by about 25dB in my systems, it isn't a deal breaker. It's something one can easily listen past. Easier than something like hum which pops up everytime a soft passage comes up. Anyways, everything else just chugs along in the background, the processing for the spline filters, etc, etc. Very easy to explore and play with with the tablet along with the usual customization options.

In any case, power management should be high on the list for anybody. In my case, the grid is let's just say, not very clean and base load stable. Despite having my own transformer, dedicated grounded lines and all, my wife chose an automation system that uses the AC lies. OMFG right? The noise can leak in from the HVAC, Light Ballasts, Refs and Freezers, all the digital devices. I've always had to use power products. That's why I ended up finally with Stromtanks. They sound better than 2am, 24/7......or until I run out of battery power LOL

 

[agencal]

Hi Kingrex, only the digital volume control. I don't know for sure if CH bit shaves, my assumption is they do. It doesn't really matter since usually the amp gain is best sounding when dropped rather than raised. In the 10 series there is no option to increase, only decrease. Something learned from the 1 series. So by about 25dB in my systems, it isn't a deal breaker. It's something one can easily listen past. Easier than something like hum which pops up everytime a soft passage comes up. Anyways, everything else just chugs along in the background, the processing for the spline filters, etc, etc. Very easy to explore and play with with the tablet along with the usual customization options.

In any case, power management should be high on the list for anybody. In my case, the grid is let's just say, not very clean and base load stable. Despite having my own transformer, dedicated grounded lines and all, my wife chose an automation system that uses the AC lies. OMFG right? The noise can leak in from the HVAC, Light Ballasts, Refs and Freezers, all the digital devices. I've always had to use power products. That's why I ended up finally with Stromtanks. They sound better than 2am, 24/7......or until I run out of battery power LOL

So you are using your amps gain ay -25db Isn’t it to much?

 

[JackD201]

-25dB volume control on the C1.2, is my easy listening volume

 

[agencal]

-25dB volume control on the C1.2, is my easy listening volume

Ahahah my bad. Sorry
So you are using C1.2 for pre as me ?
Did you try to put L1 in the chain. Everyone tells me run and buy L1 and use c1.2 as dac.

 

[delphi17]

Hi Ahmed,

C1.2 uses an hybrid volume relay design.
That means analogue and digital are used at all times.

It utilizes analogue in larger steps, and then uses digital when the changes are of minute difference.
So yes, when your volume is very low, it will utilize more digital to trim the bits.

It is mainly used for those -0.5 db differences.

Most coarse volume steps are still using analogue domain.
With my tests, anything between -30 to 0db is fine.
And try to avoid the 0.5 dbs.

As my amps have lower input voltage sensitivity.
I personally set my C1.2 at -20db, and let the preamp do the rest.
Most high end preamp's volume trimming are pure analogue, so it's even more stable and refined.
Keyword is refined.
With the CH preamp, it's like the music just goes quieter, but the stage size is still the same.
With cheaper preamps, the sound stage size will collapse quiet dramatically as you go quieter and quieter.

 

[JackD201]

Ahahah my bad. Sorry
So you are using C1.2 for pre as me ?
Did you try to put L1 in the chain. Everyone tells me run and buy L1 and use c1.2 as dac.

Very recently I did while breaking in and testing a new pair of Marten Parker Trios. I set them up with many combinations that my rack space could allow. I did two integrated amps (CH I1 and Constellation Inspiration) then did C1.2 directly into M1.1 Monos. When adding an L1 you will experience an added sense of ease and refinement. This of course means you stretch the dynamic range not just up but more importantly down. The importance of low level resolution is often overshadowed by gains in jump factor. I get that jump is impressive and I certainly get my kicks from it (cue cat that ate the canary grin LOL) HOWEVER 99 % of the time low level resolution is what displays the artistry and musicianship of those to whom we listen making it IMO more musically significant. I think this is consistent with what other L1 owners have experienced

Fortunately it is something you can't live without only when you've already lived with it. I think you are on the most logical path in terms of systematically growing your enjoyment with the least stress financially.

I started my CH journey where you did. I am now running D1.5, T1, C1.2, L10, P10, M10. I stream right now via Roon and Taiko as I await the Taiko's own application. On the analog side, I run TechDAS Air Force One with SAT and Graham Phantom Elite and a collection of carts. This year I will update the AF1 to AF1 Premium with full Titanium options and move the Graham to another system introducing the AF10 H Air bearing arm into my main one along with the move to the C10.

I normally don't take videos of my system and share them. There is just too much lost in translation from reality to compressed media done over a phone. I'll share one here though mainly because I like you and I like the very down to earth and knowledgable Aussie vlogger, Shane, who came to visit and shot the video on his phone. While it will never translate the full measure of air and the physical feeling you should be able to get at least a sense of the low level detail that the C1.2 consistently delivers. Since I use battery power I opted to forego the use of my X1s my thinking being that the filtration required is far less as the system is isolated from the noise generated in our own home at least as far as everything before the amplifiers which are going through dedicated 20A lines.

The track played was streamed via Qobuz through the Taiko Extreme. Enjoy

 

[Slingblade]

OK, going to find that track right now on Qobuz. Amazing system!