CH Precision L1 vs C1.2 Pre-Dac?

[agencal]

Normal listening my meters usually show in the 30s to 60s. When at a pretty healthy volume, I'd be rocking between 100 and 170 watts whether I'm listening to jazz, classical or even melodic tech and trance. When I do decide to get really stupid wattage use can climb very quickly as the amp deals with the increases in back EMF in order to control the speaker drivers. In the case of both M1.1 and M10s we are talking about playing distortion free in the kilowatt range. Strangely enough it isn't classical music, pipe organ included that tends to eat up gobs of power. I've found music that employs constant beds of electric bass guitars (mic'd up guitar cabinets) and especially percussive piano parts.

We have to remember that sound pressure is logarithmic and the wattage use can climb very quickly. Doubling wattage does not double SPL. What going from Stereo to Mono gives you is not so much the rated rms gains but double the power supply reserves. The left and right channel will not be drawing/competing for the reserves that reside in the capacitor banks ergo headroom. This also helps with channel separation/imaging but this is typically made out to be a bigger deal than it is. The improvements are there but most will not say WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

For me it is like having a 2.0 litre turbodiesel rental vs a performance car. The speed limit will have you driving at the speed the cops will willingly turn a blind eye and no more than that but the rental will be pretty close to its limits overtaking at 140 to 160kph but the performance car might not even have to kick down a gear when you move over to the overtake lane to pass. The limit in audio is when things like thermal compression, clipping and even potential damage happens. Going mono gives you that added cushion.

“The improvements are there but most will not say WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE!”
This made me think L1 is my upgrade to feel a resl sonic jump after my C1.2-X1 set up with M1.1
Thank you

 

[delphi17]

CH products were designed with their Linestage in mind.

While the C1.2 is impressive in it's own rights, it wasn't until I added the CH preamp that I truly realize how amazing CH Precision's sound can be.

The additional focus and stability that an excellent active line stage bring is just incredible.

While some other brand's dacs are designed so that a line stage may not be as required.
The sweet volume spot will still be smaller than if an excellent line stage is in the chain.

With an excellent preamp, you are able to listen to any song in your preferred volume, and have the same transparency and focus.

So yes, my suggestion would also be to save up and get the L1.
And then in the future the X1, and then you can power the C1.2 and L1 together in the future.
And that would give you a even larger boost in quality , then you would if you bought the X1 alone.

 

[Hyperion]

CH products were designed with their Linestage in mind.

While the C1.2 is impressive in it's own rights, it wasn't until I added the CH preamp that I truly realize how amazing CH Precision's sound can be.

The additional focus and stability that an excellent active line stage bring is just incredible.

While some other brand's dacs are designed so that a line stage may not be as required.
The sweet volume spot will still be smaller than if an excellent line stage is in the chain.

With an excellent preamp, you are able to listen to any song in your preferred volume, and have the same transparency and focus.

So yes, my suggestion would also be to save up and get the L1.
And then in the future the X1, and then you can power the C1.2 and L1 together in the future.
And that would give you a even larger boost in quality , then you would if you bought the X1 alone.

My point exactly .

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[gian60]

I bought in 2015 C 1 and A1 mono
X1 and L1 was not yet in production
Then bought X1 and was a big step
When L1 was in production I tried at home and C1 with L1,using C1 like dat without his volume control, was another big step

The sound adding L 1 to C 1 in my system was more transparent, more aire and details and better depth and scene

Then bought M1,P1. ,I love this brand

Will like to pass to 10 series, but really too expensive for me

 

[agencal]

I bought in 2015 C 1 and A1 mono
X1 and L1 was not yet in production
Then bought X1 and was a big step
When L1 was in production I tried at home and C1 with L1,using C1 like dat without his volume control, was another big step

The sound adding L 1 to C 1 in my system was more transparent, more aire and details and better depth and scene

Then bought M1,P1. ,I love this brand

Will like to pass to 10 series, but really too expensive for me

Thank you. Now i use C1.2 with X1 and M1.2. What i feel is sound is great so far. I really want to try L1 to understand if it is worth the extra budget. Even with it i am very happy with the sound. Especially the soundstage depth and seperetain. What sould expect to improve with L1 ?

 

[gian60]

I increased aire,transparency,and depth
But mine was C1, could be with C1.2 L1 improvment is less

 

[metei]

Just curious and not disputing your expertise and familiarity with the CHP product line, but how does adding a component (an active preamp) to the signal path improve the sound, assuming there are no impedance matching or overall gain issues between the source and the load?

I can understand that an active line stage preamp has a role in many vinyl playback chains (since many phono preamps do not have oodles of super low noise gain) but most modern DACs have a low output impedance and enough voltage to drive most amplifiers to their full rated output.

I can understand that the output stage of a high end preamp is likely to be superior to that found in most modern DACs (some Aries Cerat DACs and the Playback Designs MPD-8 being notable exceptions) but it isn't like the DAC's output stage is bypassed when using an active preamp, only the resistor network of the volume control. Or is this not correct in the context of an all CHP signal path?

Hi Luke,
A very valid and regularly asked question. That question is valid especially for passive preamps; which is basically attenuators. Owning two of the best ever preamps, I think I am in a position to answer the question. First, as also replied earlier, to my ears (and many more people's) 'with' a preamp sounds better; fuller, more controlled, authoritative. While basically what (most) active preamplifiers do is; gain the signal 6 dB (i.e. twice) and through their volume control attenuate around half of it back; i.e. signal level at the entrance and output of the preamp is in many cases same, and this is Your question. Which brings us to second; no component in the audio chain is pure and neutral. Not even the passive components (wires, even jumpers and yes the 'passive' speakers), they all have their character let alone the active (amplifying) components. Furthermore in case of a DAC, although it is extremely dependent on the design, most DAC chips output 3 - 5 volts at the chip ports, whereas most source outputs are 1 to 5 volts. So, when one manages the volume level of a DAC, they must attenuate the volume level between output of the DAC chip and output of the DAC device. And the magic word is the attenuation. There are 1 cent attenuators, there are attenuator circuit complex worth hundreds of dollars. Inside a DAC, to concentrate on the main task at hand (D to A C) both in terms of design and cost, naturally the attenuation isn't expected to be as good as a preamplifier's (or preamplifier stage of an integrated) and digital attenuation is (as every and any action in digital domain) is a filter; it changes the sound and also one can never guess the outcome in case of a full running system, with real audio. The recent LEEDH or similar approaches are nice, but not there yet. As a result, when You use the DAC without attenuation, and do the amplification & attenuation in the preamp, You get better sound out of Your DAC and give it to another device, which is designed to do that one thing (in two halves); amplify the incoming sound and attenuate it, which naturally does it better. Even in the case of the most neutral preamplifier ever, CH - L1, basically this happens and in most other cases the preamps have their own sound character added to it; better bass control, stronger mids, etc. to serve one's musical tastes better.

 

[Slingblade]

I recently upgraded to an L1 from the excellent Pass XP-22 and the difference was massive IMO. I've used my Weiss Helios DAC as a preamp and while it was good, the Pass made things a lot better (to be expected) and the L1 took it up several more notches. Well worth the investment in my experience.

 

[agencal]

I recently upgraded to an L1 from the excellent Pass XP-22 and the difference was massive IMO. I've used my Weiss Helios DAC as a preamp and while it was good, the Pass made things a lot better (to be expected) and the L1 took it up several more notches. Well worth the investment in my experience.

I already bought it and very happy . Thank you

 

[Slingblade]

I already bought it and very happy . Thank you

Well then I just wanted to make you feel better about it! Congrats.

 

[agencal]

Well then I just wanted to make you feel better about it! Congrats.

Thank you I hope you also enjoy yours. X1 is a must by the way

 

[Slingblade]

Thank you I hope you also enjoy yours. X1 is a must by the way

Ugh - I knew you'd say that!! Let my wallet recover first. LOL

 

[agencal]

Ugh - I knew you'd say that!! Let my wallet recover first. LOL

Ahahahah Take your time and save

 

[Slingblade]

Just finished the DC offset optimization and am shocked by the improvement. This is a serious piece of hardware!!

 

[agencal]

Just finished the DC offset optimization and am shocked by the improvement. This is a serious piece of hardware!!

DC offset optimization? Do you mean the calibration? I can not find a difference when i do it.
If you are talking about the coupling ; With direct coupl. it is more detailed but less soundstage. If i go the other way then soundstage imptoves but detail declines

 

[Slingblade]

DC offset optimization? Do you mean the calibration? I can not find a difference when i do it.
If you are talking about the coupling ; With direct coupl. it is more detailed but less soundstage. If i go the other way then soundstage imptoves but detail declines

Yes, sorry it is "input calibration" in the manual. It was definitely audible to me. Very cool technology!