MBL or TIDAL? SPEAKERS, ELECTRONICS...

[John57]

Two renowned brands with their own followers...which is better, which is best? Is it only personal preference, of course history makes a difference, still, is there a winner or are the awards varied in each category?

MBL Akustikgeräte – The Company

Over the last three decades, MBL has played a major part in breathtaking developments in the worldwide audio sector. MBL accompanied and influenced the birth and growth of high-end audio equipment. Throughout the entire process, MBL was driven by its special goal: to be the cutting edge market leader in terms of technology and quality. There was a time when the “Radialstrahler” was only an idea on a sketch-pad. An idea that many people believed would not work, was turned into patent. Thirty years and countless awards later, thousands of audiophiles in the whole world are now closer to their beloved music than they had ever dreamt of.

MBL’s goal remains unchanged: developing the most advanced speakers and audio players worldwide plus the establishment of a standard above all competitors – with the highest possible demand on quality. Every single MBL component is man-made, from development and design to the manufacturing, testing and listening – from the idea to the finished product. It’s up to you, the music lover, to assess the result. Your judgement, your emotion when you listen to your favourite piece of music on one of our players, this is what counts at MBL. Let yourself be enchanted by music and the design of our music equipment – all our efforts are dedicated to music and to you.

TIDAL-WE BUILD EMOTIONS
SOUND, DESIGN & FINISH

TIDAL - ultimate audio systems. Founded in 1999 with one goal: to build the finest audio systems in the world, defined by manufacturing unique masterpieces with jewelry finish, timeless sophisticated design and benchmark performance to reproduce music no less than lifelike.
Every detail, every single part and every step involved in making a TIDAL masterpiece exists in a world that is free from the bounds of cost optimization and budgetary limitations.

TIDAL's unique technologies and manufacturing processes are seen in all of our products and this website will convey many of these details to you in greater depth. That said, when all is said and done, we would like you to discover TIDAL with your own ears, hands and eyes. Nothing written can really prepare you for the experience of hearing our products in reality. We promise nothing less than the true sound experience from handcrafted masterpieces made in Germany.

 

[Folsom]

It's interesting you posted about what I'd consider the two most unnatural, colored, highly modified, pumped full of weirdness, companies I can think of...

Their sounds are so bizarre that if it floats your boat go for it, but they're of a unique taste IMO. They are simply very different, and not of any sort of variety that is uniquely advanced as they might wish you to believe. I will say that MBL's speakers are certainly very neat in how they're made, and that maybe Tidal's could sound great with other electronics. BTW I don't know why I haven't read people describing MBL as breathy; they have an odd quality to them.

I suppose I'd say beware of first impressions, they might be very grabbing, but the gimmick might wear thin rather fast on you.

 

[still-one]

I find the MBL sound to be the most lifelike reproduction of what live music would/should sound like in a room. I am still contemplating switching back to MBL at some point. Probably the only thing holding me back is having to move to one of my larger rooms and out of my current two channel room.

 

[dafos]

What model are you considering? I've heard the Tidal Agoria and the Sunray with and without the T1 sub, the Agoria is quite good but from what I've heard you can't go wrong with the Sunray specially if you go all the way and get the matching T1 subs. Haven't heard their latest models that have the pure diamond drivers.

The MBL's sound very different but have an alluring quality that people either like or don't like. I personally like it but again depends which model your looking at.

 

[Audiocrack]

It's interesting you posted about what I'd consider the two most unnatural, colored, highly modified, pumped full of weirdness, companies I can think of...

Their sounds are so bizarre that if it floats your boat go for it, but they're of a unique taste IMO. They are simply very different, and not of any sort of variety that is uniquely advanced as they might wish you to believe. I will say that MBL's speakers are certainly very neat in how they're made, and that maybe Tidal's could sound great with other electronics. BTW I don't know why I haven't read people describing MBL as breathy; they have an odd quality to them.

I suppose I'd say beware of first impressions, they might be very grabbing, but the gimmick might wear thin rather fast on you.

As a long time Tidal loudspeakers user I am rather baffled by your comments. So maybe you can explain your comments? In particular your qualifications 'unnatural' and 'coloured' I find rather strange.

 

[audioblazer]

Well if anybody interested in MBL extreme + it's electronic , my friend want to sell his speakers for Half of MSRP. It sure sound v dynamic & can play really really loud with superb workmanship

 

[thedudeabides]

I find the MBL sound to be the most lifelike reproduction of what live music would/should sound like in a room.

Hi Jim,

I believe you owned the 111's before switching to Wilson. I've had my 116's for some five plus years. They are "lifers" for me and energize a room similar to listening to live music and unlike any other speaker I have ever heard. This having come from owning electrostatics for some 25 years.

Have no idea what Folsom is talking about. Must be in love with box speakers I suppose and that's fine.

Unnatural, colored, highly modified, pumped full of weirdness, not of any sort of variety that is uniquely advanced, breathy, odd quality to them.

These are not the qualities that I would in anyway ascribe to the sound of MBL speakers.

Regarding Folsom's critique, he admits it's a matter of personal choice. So why the negative tirade and hyperbole against MBL?

To the OP, I encourage you to audition a properly set up MBL system within your price point and make your own decision.

 

[bonzo75]

Two renowned brands with their own followers...which is better, which is best? Is it only personal preference, of course history makes a difference, still, is there a winner or are the awards varied in each category?

MBL Akustikgeräte – The Company

Over the last three decades, MBL has played a major part in breathtaking developments in the worldwide audio sector. MBL accompanied and influenced the birth and growth of high-end audio equipment. Throughout the entire process, MBL was driven by its special goal: to be the cutting edge market leader in terms of technology and quality. There was a time when the “Radialstrahler” was only an idea on a sketch-pad. An idea that many people believed would not work, was turned into patent. Thirty years and countless awards later, thousands of audiophiles in the whole world are now closer to their beloved music than they had ever dreamt of.

MBL’s goal remains unchanged: developing the most advanced speakers and audio players worldwide plus the establishment of a standard above all competitors – with the highest possible demand on quality. Every single MBL component is man-made, from development and design to the manufacturing, testing and listening – from the idea to the finished product. It’s up to you, the music lover, to assess the result. Your judgement, your emotion when you listen to your favourite piece of music on one of our players, this is what counts at MBL. Let yourself be enchanted by music and the design of our music equipment – all our efforts are dedicated to music and to you.

TIDAL-WE BUILD EMOTIONS
SOUND, DESIGN & FINISH

TIDAL - ultimate audio systems. Founded in 1999 with one goal: to build the finest audio systems in the world, defined by manufacturing unique masterpieces with jewelry finish, timeless sophisticated design and benchmark performance to reproduce music no less than lifelike.
Every detail, every single part and every step involved in making a TIDAL masterpiece exists in a world that is free from the bounds of cost optimization and budgetary limitations.

TIDAL's unique technologies and manufacturing processes are seen in all of our products and this website will convey many of these details to you in greater depth. That said, when all is said and done, we would like you to discover TIDAL with your own ears, hands and eyes. Nothing written can really prepare you for the experience of hearing our products in reality. We promise nothing less than the true sound experience from handcrafted masterpieces made in Germany.

Why don't you tour Germany? MBL, Tidal, and I can point you to a couple of brilliant horns when you are there, including the Avantgarde factory for the trios. In 3 - 4 days you will get a good flavor of very different sounds.

 

[still-one]

Hi Jim,

I believe you owned the 111's before switching to Wilson. I've had my 116's for some five plus years. They are "lifers" for me and energize a room similar to listening to live music and unlike any other speaker I have ever heard. This having come from owning electrostatics for some 25 years.

Have no idea what Folsom is talking about. Must be in love with box speakers I suppose and that's fine.

Unnatural, colored, highly modified, pumped full of weirdness, not of any sort of variety that is uniquely advanced, breathy, odd quality to them.

These are not the qualities that I would in anyway ascribe to the sound of MBL speakers.

Regarding Folsom's critique, he admits it's a matter of personal choice. So why the negative tirade and hyperbole against MBL?

To the OP, I encourage you to audition a properly set up MBL system within your price point and make your own decision.

Yes I owned 111F's and before that 111e's. It took a great deal on my X2's to move me away from MBL and there are times I still miss the MBL sound.. I can understand where it could take some time to get used to the MBL sound. Especially so if you think sound should come only from a point between your speakers. Funny I have never heard sound staging like that when sitting listening to more than one musician playing live music.

 

[Folsom]

As a long time Tidal loudspeakers user I am rather baffled by your comments. So maybe you can explain your comments? In particular your qualifications 'unnatural' and 'coloured' I find rather strange.

As I said, I don't expect Tidal's speakers to specifically be the source, but rather the house sound with their full electronics set. It sounds overly strange and sweet, like candy (colored), with overly refined floating, to keep it short.

MBL creates a bizarre holographic image that isn't anything like a real life performance. It helps the mind believe there's something there in a different way than actually seeing and hearing a real performer. It's unique, and different, and some people really like it but not me.

I'm not in the least bit using hyperbole. These two house sounds take some pretty incredible feats of manipulation to create. I know because I can mimic a bunch of it if I wanted to (and have), but I'm not into it personally.

Just as much as I respect that people very much enjoy these house sounds, I ask you respect that you respect that I find them very unattractive and bizarre. My note to anyone looking at an entire house sound is to spend some time on the subject because they are so different that it's easy to get hooked in the moment and forget you're probably going to have it for awhile once you buy.

 

[still-one]

MBL creates a bizarre holographic image that isn't anything like a real life performance. It helps the mind believe there's something there in a different way than actually seeing and hearing a real performer. It's unique, and different, and some people really like it but not me.

.

I guess you don't get out to hear live music much. You are wrong on so many levels.

 

[thedudeabides]

Agreed.

 

[thedudeabides]

These two house sounds take some pretty incredible feats of manipulation to create.

All speakers "manipulate" sound in one way or another. It's an electrical / mechanical conversion. Please tell me one that doesn't.

 

[Folsom]

I guess you don't get out to hear live music much. You are wrong on so many levels.

I've heard an awful lot of live music. At one time there were 2-3 shows going a week where I use to live, and each show would have several bands - during the summer.

As far as manipulation I mean deliberate attempts to add noise mostly. There's many ways to do that. But also there's things like inducing current limitations etc. They simply work harder to chnage the signal from over source than others. The results may bring desired qualities to many, but not all. And I'm talking about electronics, not just speakers. In fact MBL or Tidal speakers might be something I'd like to own, but their electronics are not.

 

[Eichenbaum]

I've heard an awful lot of live music. At one time there were 2-3 shows going a week where I use to live, and each show would have several bands - during the summer.

As far as manipulation I mean deliberate attempts to add noise mostly. There's many ways to do that. But also there's things like inducing current limitations etc. They simply work harder to chnage the signal from over source than others. The results may bring desired qualities to many, but not all. And I'm talking about electronics, not just speakers. In fact MBL or Tidal speakers might be something I'd like to own, but their electronics are not.

Acoustic bands?

 

[Folsom]

Acoustic bands?

A mix. You'd see a bit of everything. And on Saturday there was often acoustic bands at farmers market in the morning. To be honest I got burned out on music and started being more selective. I always wanted the symphony in the park to be better since they played a bunch of pop crap.... Pink Panther and such.

 

[Audiocrack]

As I said, I don't expect Tidal's speakers to specifically be the source, but rather the house sound with their full electronics set. It sounds overly strange and sweet, like candy (colored), with overly refined floating, to keep it short.

MBL creates a bizarre holographic image that isn't anything like a real life performance. It helps the mind believe there's something there in a different way than actually seeing and hearing a real performer. It's unique, and different, and some people really like it but not me.

I'm not in the least bit using hyperbole. These two house sounds take some pretty incredible feats of manipulation to create. I know because I can mimic a bunch of it if I wanted to (and have), but I'm not into it personally.

Just as much as I respect that people very much enjoy these house sounds, I ask you respect that you respect that I find them very unattractive and bizarre. My note to anyone looking at an entire house sound is to spend some time on the subject because they are so different that it's easy to get hooked in the moment and forget you're probably going to have it for awhile once you buy.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion although I find your view rather 'bizarre' to use your own words. The Tidal loudspeakers I am employing are the most transparent loudspeakers I have ever heard in my life due to inter alia the high quality and inertness of the cabinets and diamond drivers. And yes, I heard quite a few of the big loudspeaker boys of other manufacturors before I selected my Tidal loudspeakers.

Not combining them with Tidal electronics though. Do not know which Tidal loudspeakers you listened to and under what kind of conditions, but likely something was wrong. Anyway, let's conclude that I strongly disagree with your harsh words.

 

[jep123]

Another German brand is Kaiser Acoustics. I got my new pair of their Classic model last week and if one word can describe them it is natural. They use custom made drivers, Duelund crossover parts and they are made of Panzerholz or maybe Tank wood in english. They are not very large, but weights in at 99 kilo. I can very highly recommend them.

 

[jeff1225]

I've always been very interested in the MBL technology, but I can't say I've enjoyed any of their CES demonstrations. Perhaps its how loud the Germans play death metal at the shows, you really can't spend a lot of time in their room if you want to listen critically to the remainder of the show.

Now a few years ago Convergent Audio Technologies' CES presentation of their tube amps was with MBL 101 E and it was simply AMAZING. The MBL with the proper (they are a very difficult load) tube electronics was easily one of the best systems I've ever heard at a show.

 

[thedudeabides]

Anyway, let's conclude that I strongly disagree with your harsh words.

Appears Folsom has revised his position on MBL and Tidal speakers.