I can't say I'm surprised. Someone has to take Blizzards' place. Those in opposition can always vote with their feet. I think it's telling that his participation is being limited. I hope you don't grow to regret it. Then again maybe I don't.
Measurement Thread: Measured Effect of Speaker Isolators
- Thread starter amirm
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I can't say I'm surprised. Someone has to take Blizzards' place. Those in opposition can always vote with their feet. I think it's telling that his participation is being limited. I hope you don't grow to regret it. Then again maybe I don't.
WBF needs more experts to make it a relevant resource for audiophiles. People with strong in trenched views will bang heads, the readers of such exchanges are free to pick the philosophy they feel best suits there subjective experience and needs going forward.
Robust debate is fundamental in the quest to understanding audio in the home, that's what this site seems to be for ultimately. It's ok to disagree, it's ok!
Robust debate is fundamental in the quest to understanding audio in the home, that's what this site seems to be for ultimately. It's ok to disagree, it's ok!
DJ, you could get a short spiked platform to put the IsoAcoustics stands on, if you have carpet. That way the Iso stands would be on a flat, smooth surface rather than carpet. But I've had a couple people I know try them right on carpet and they reported the same improvements. I need to see if there's a way I can get Iso to make bottom feet that can either be the standard rubber material or a carpet spike... I suppose I could fabricate spikes to be used with Iso stands but that seems like a lot of work.
In your first post in this thread you seemed to be saying that isolating the speaker to prevent floor vibrations was the key. In this one you seem to be recommending spikes, which would couple the speakers to the floor. I'm confused.
Tim
Thanks Amir. I think limiting people (me) to certain forums is a good one. Perhaps I'm not the only person who should be limited?
--Ethan
Yes, there are differences at 20 Hz, but as I explained in the article those look random to me, and are probably due to acoustic rumble from the air handler in my studio. There's just as much difference with No Isolation at two heights as there is between No Isolation and any of the devices.
If the floor vibrates or not is irrelevant unless that vibration results in an audible effect. That's the main flaw with the "data" shown by IsoAcoustics on their web site. They show infinitesimal amounts of vibration being blocked, but not what actually happens to the sound in the air that reaches our ears. The only thing that matters is what we hear. If multiple sound paths don't show up as response changes or extended decay times, which is what I showed, then how else would it manifest?
The REW data file is linked in the article. I did look at Distortion, but that view seems to be broken. I'm quite sure my speakers or microphone don't have 30-50 percent distortion as reported, nor do I believe it's possible for the distortion to change from 30 to 45 percent just by lowering the speaker 3 inches. I have REW 5.13 so maybe there's a newer version with the distortion display fixed? Also, I never said 3db is required for an audible change. I said I consider 3 dB the minimum for the "obvious change" so many subjectivist reviews claim. Even at my age (67) I can easily hear a 0.5 dB difference at midrange frequencies.
Few people listen closer than 1 meter. So if the effect of isolation can't be detected that far away, then how important is isolation at all? That's why I focused on measuring actual changes to the sound in the air. That's what we hear, so anything else is irrelevant. Same for the Recoils. It doesn't really matter what a vendor claims if nothing actually changes when their product is used.
We used a three plane accelorametor to measure , amongst other things , the floor in my listening room , I believe now the only real benefit of loudspeaker isolation may be the reduction of structural borne vibration, which while it may not benefit you the listener might reduce resonance in the flat below.
As an aside I enjoy your work Ethan good to see you here.
Keith.
As an aside I enjoy your work Ethan good to see you here.
Keith.
Because the test was incapable of measuring the recoil stabilizer's claimed performance and your measurements do show at least a 1-2db change, an ABX test is in order. I can't sign off on your assumptions concerning audibility. There's no data here or anywhere which shows what the threshold of audibility would be. I agree that a recoil stabilizer's claimed improvement might be impossible to hear if the MLP was 9'. But many folks are listening way closer than that. I could see how a close listener hearing an actually better impulse would be very audible to the listener. For example, if you loosened the bolts on your speaker woofers, would that change the impulse? Would that be audible? I'm not sure the recoil stabilizer's effect is that great (if any), but that's what they claim. The only way to test that claim would be either ABX listening or a quality low frequency measurement. I'm not seeing that here.
Michael.
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Good morning Ethan.
There have been signifocant attempts at censorship. I fully expected to see you come out swinging.
Bon chance.
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I have been as big a proponent of free speech as anyone. See TOS4.
There are plenty of places to experience Ethans' "philosophy." I saw one of his videos on you tube. I just think he forfeited the right to participate here.
What did he do , must have been serious, sleep with someone's wife or worse criticise their sound quality?
Keith
Criticising the sound quality of the music playing as you sleep with thier wife on husbands lounge floor... Umm the sweet spot can be accessed from various positions if you know what your doing... But clearly the husband does not and much to his shock is now hearing sounds he has never herd before!
Sorry could not resist, delete if deemed offensive .
Quite!
re the thread BE-719 of this very forum, measures vibration for a living, I believe you would have to measure the floor ,with and without the speakers on the isolators ,all other factors remaining the same.
Keith.
The platform is to put the IsoAcoustics stands on, since they do not come with carpet spikes... they are meant for hard, smooth floors.
You must not have read all of my post(s) as I was very clear about this... Distortion in the bass regions caused by sympathetic vibrations of the floor and other surfaces.
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