More Consensus That Streaming Is An Inferior Format & Not High End?
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I'm a 100% streamer. I wish I had a record collection but by the time I got into audio, records were just too expensive. I think my system is pretty high end, but I can say it does give me a lot of enjoyment: Innous Streamer + MSB Analog DAC + Qobuz.
Peter; i never said what you quoted in the post you copied, maybe quote the exact words i used so i respond correctly to the right reference. if it was another post link it. happy to respond just trying to get it right.
Millions and millions of records were pressed during half a century there are still millions of great records out there for a few dollars at most, don't let lack of records be your excuse.
david
I believe the question was about quality not quantity, I'm sure that universally streaming beats every other format. You had to spend over 6 figures for satisfactory results would you say that's typical for the average streamer you quote?
david
i was happy streaming with my Lampi Golden Gate (and GG 1.5) and Taiko SGM 2015 server in 2016-2017; about $25k'ish total retail as far as dollars. and if i still had that no worries. that's a pretty nice spot to be in. you could acquire that or similar (lots of choices) for half what i paid for it. and anyone enjoying that streaming neighborhood now is living large.
since then i've taken a couple big steps up streaming-wise, but then so has my vinyl too.
access to music compared to entry level vinyl and media acquisition headwind is not any way comparable. streaming is basically point and click. bada boom. sure; vinyl has a huge upside, but there are a lot of buts.
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Well applied streaming is mildly sonically inferior to other formats. It may be superior to other formats in a system if hyper attention was not paid to the other formats.
Being a little inferior to other formats does not exclude it from high end. It's simply not the top tier of high end.
For someone with a strong opinion about things, where would they place vinyl in the stature of high end. I'm sure there are those with tape that scoff at vinyl. Why waste your time and money. If its not tape, its not high end.
Being a little inferior to other formats does not exclude it from high end. It's simply not the top tier of high end.
For someone with a strong opinion about things, where would they place vinyl in the stature of high end. I'm sure there are those with tape that scoff at vinyl. Why waste your time and money. If its not tape, its not high end.
I think that would be a real pity, to deprive people of the beauty, joy and emotional involvement in music due to what amounts to either ignorance or snobbery. I have been in and around hi-fi for greater than 50 years, chasing that very elusive high-end dream and while I’ve achieved some great results with both vinyl and CD, the results have depended solely on the quality of the recordings, which frankly have been and still are pretty spotty. Vinyl needs constant preening and ultimately wears out, while CD as a medium started out to be a-musical and has only recently achieved some level of musicality. Master tapes clearly have the performance capability but at huge cost. The point of my $500, $50,000, $500,000 TT post was to illustrate that multiple levels of sound quality exist (the assumption being that someone spending $50,000 would have different expectations than if they were spending $500) and the exact same thing is true in streaming. While $500 can buy an adequate result, it will not buy state of the art performance, whereas $50,000 can. And comments about the quality of streaming not being state of the art are irrelevant without referencing the level of equipment we’re talking about.
Vinyl replay quality depends on the recording and on it’s ability to avoid the introduction on noise. Once noise is present, all bets are off. CD is similar. Noise invoked by drive motors, servo motors, power supplies, displays etc. will negatively influence the final musical outcome. Streaming is the ONLY source I have used in my 50 years of hi-fi where i can do something about the inherent noise. The network was initially developed to transport digital information from one place to another and is, generally speaking a pretty noisy environment. BUT when the goal of the network is the reproduction of music it has an extremely valuable characteristic, namely the ability to remove noise and recondition the signal and therein lies its ability to produce true high-end fidelity. Provide enough good engineering and care in reconditioning the signal and a plain old internet feed can be presented as a gorgeous, utterly compelling and musically involving 4 dimensional, immersive performance taking place in a live or engineer created venue.
The ideal of ‘high-end’ is an idea, an aspiration, that means different things to different people. Streaming for me is pretty much the first time I have been able to achieve my idea of high-end music reproduction without having to spend very significant sums of money, then struggle with finding the appropriate media.
Yes it might be a pity but again this is an example of why I steer people away.
Based on seeing all of your old gear, it seems like you've had your system and records for a long time, and you're out of the game a little bit. I guess you haven't been to a record store or been on Ebay looking for records lately, records are extremely expensive. The flood of new records have driven up prices on older ones and the pandemic caused records to be unbelievably expensive.
I actually had to replace my 30 year old collection after losing it moving back to US and had to start buying again. I agree that ebay and places like discogs aren't for bargain prices but depending on where you live there's an older population who's simply moving to smaller dwellings or have passed on and some with substantial record collections. That's how I mostly replaced my collection with a new one. I don't know what your aim is but finding a couple of hundred records you like isn't an impossible or bank breaking venture. Of course, it's entirely up to you.
My point was that there's still an abundance of records to choose from not to buy anything one sees, and you know it. Individual's choice I don't care what people go for.
david
Even if we manage to survive with a "couple of hundred records"it is an hunt activity. Most of the time these substantial record collections are filled with distortion, click and pops, as they have been played by well worn vestiges of stylus.
My point was simply you will not find most music recorded after the middle 80's in vinyl.I was addressing time of recording, not musical quality. Should we expect audiophiles to listen just to the same music that was listened by their parents and grand parents?
I think this is is a well made point: "Should we expect audiophiles to listen just to the same music that was listened by their parents and grand parents?"
New music is very expensive on vinyl and isn't most of it recorded on digital?
so why should we listen to Beethoven, Bach, and the 60s and 70s rock groups or the older blues and jazz? What is this random argument for age? Do you think Beethoven Vs Britney is an age thing or maturity thing?
We will listen to what’s good. Only as we grow older we understand better what’s good. At least, some of us progress. Classical comes from many hundred years before, rock and jazz from a few decades before, recordings from a few decades before. My speaker drivers come from that similar period, my digital from now, analog will be from now, SETs from now though generally based on design from some decades before, the Valves on amps from decades before, and so on. You are the one picking an era, we are cherry picking quality from the period it was available.
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